Trying to start a freed flathead

Hey everyone, i recently "unstuck" the flathead v8 in my 49 ford by putting a mixture of atf and diesel in the cylinders and turning the flywheel. I have pulled the heads and freed all the valves aswell as installed new head gaskets. I am now trying to fire the beast and i cannot get it going, at first i thought it was a timing issue but after a compression test i found most of the cylinders were around 60 psi and some around 30 psi. I ***ume this is from seized rings as when i squirt oil in the cylinders it raises them up to around 90 psi. Is there something i can do to help fire this engine since im sure the heat and action of running it should help free up the rings, i dont really want to tear the whole thing down.
So far i have had the best luck pouring 2 stroke oil in the cylinders and tryin to start it, this raises compression and is ment to burn and has gotten the engine to the point of firing and kicking out the bendix drive starter. My other idea would be to pull start the car since it would get the engine spinning fast enough to build enough compression to run, the only problem with this is that im in a residential area and the car has no brakes Anybody have any insight into this as i'd like the get the engine running and then check oil pressure and such to find the general condition of the engine.

Thanks
Jim

 

Your wasting your time...even if it starts and runs, you will never get it running good enough to drive around trouble free. Tear it down now, or later. What's the difference?
My mechanical 2 cents.

 

You should also do an intro first.

 

tear it down, and rebuild it right, before you ruin it for good

 

Think it through but getting it to fire up isn't the first step. It was stuck. You had the heads off. I would go the extra mile and take off the oil pan and pull the rods and pistons. If you are getting good oil pressure while cranking it with the starter, then you might get away with not pulling the main bearing caps and checking the running clearance, but I would do that too before trying to run it. After pistons are out, it might become apparent why it was stuck in the first place. Busted block or whatever........

 

As long as you know there is not a inch deep layer of sludge on the bottom of the oil pan, It should be ok to run it. Make sure it's getting some oil pressure. The comp will improve real quickly after you run it a few times.

You are using 12 volt battery I hope..

Your plugs will need constant cleaning each time it fails to start. Keep cleaning them with carb cleaner,or laquer thinner, etc and air pressure. Also it helps to use a little carb spray cleaner down the carb....or if all else fails, some starting fluid.

Every time you go through the plug cleaning and cranking, it will try to hit on a few more cylinders. You just need to keep drying the plugs.

Worst ones sometimes need to leave a few plugs out to get it to spin faster..

 

DON'T USE STARTING FLUID!!!

That's just plain stupid and if you want to **** something up even worse that would be the one stupid thing to do. (or even suggest to someone.)

If you keep putting large amounts of oil in the cylinders, you will hydralic the engine and **** it up by splitting a cylinder wall. Thank goodness its not firing.

STOP what you are doing and give your head a shake and listen to the advice your getting.

Tear the engine down. Your not going to fix the rings by running it. Don't know about engines, take it to someone who does know FLATHEADS.

 

Intro???
Man with an intro like trying to start a flathead I'd say its one of the top ones here on the Hamb.
Seems to me like your internals are working, I can't see any reason why you wouldnt want to start it.
If your planning on converting it to 12 volts nows the time. It will provide more spark.
Gotta go now... have a garage job to do right now. Stay tuned you will get more advise.

 

Call me if you need help, I've got lots of flatheads going again that were sitting for years, never seized though...
I also have a rebuilt 8BA for $1700.... if your interested

 

If the valves are free and you're down to 30# of compression, the rings are stuck. If you get it to run, you will burn a piston. Pull it apart.

 

If you can't get the compression up enough by squirting a couple of shots of oil in each cylinder you are probably out of luck.
Way back when I was in high school auto shop cl*** I started a 53 or so Olds that everyone in town had given up and quit on by squirting several shots of motor oil in each cylinder and cranking the engine over several times before putting the plugs back in. Yep it smoked like a bandit but it at least ran for the kids that owned it to be able to drive it home. I never saw the car again so I don't know what happened after that.

I do agree that If it were mine I'd pull it apart now and see what the actual problem was. most likely stuck rings and if so it is time to replace them. I'd be way more afraid of damaging a cylinder wall with a broken ring or worse than having to spend the money for a new set of rings. With the heads off you were half way there before. With a hone job and a set of new rings you would have it running now most likely.

 

I don't really like being called "just plain stupid".




I am done trying to help people who ASK for help on this site. Let the jack***es rule this place

 

Hey, got it to run for about 5 seconds then died, done for tonight since it smoked out the garage so I'll wait to start it outside this weekend when it warms up a bit. As for in intro, My name is Jim and I've been into cars all my life, I'm 20 and currently attending the university of alberta taking mechanical engineering. I got my first car at 14, a 66 beetle for $500 and did a complete resto on it, rebuilt engine, welded new floors and rockers in, did bodywork and painted it in my garage. I've owned probably 30 some cars, most volkswagens but recently turned to american iron with a 62 Ford Fairlane 500, 55 Olds Super 88, 67 Meteor Montcalm and now this 49 Ford custom






As for the Naysayers, The heads were pulled, valves all cleaned and lapped. The cylinders had a slight ridge but no serious grooves and no rust. The oil was dropped and flushed with cheap oil then put in new oil. I pulled all the plugs and cranked it till I got oil pressure. I would like to have it running so i can see what condition the engine is in aswell as see if the clutch works, ****** works. The car had to of been sitting since the 70s. Its still 6 volt positive ground and Ive been cranking it with a 6 volt battery with a charger on 6 volt boost and it seems to turn it over pretty good. I pulled the starter and checked it out aswell as cleaned all of the wiring connections. Thanks for the advice on pulling plugs, Might just be what it needs to get it running. All the comments are appriciated, just wanted to let you guys know im not some punk kid thats got no clue about old cars.

Here is another project of mine, my dream car a 1956 european sunroof beetle, had been sitting since 67 and i got it on the road this summer.




Jim

 

I thought your idea was the best suggestion yet. I guess we are both stupid.

Im not worried about it though. Let the little internet expert doggy bark. If that guys expert mind wasnt too feeble to comprehend what you said, he wouldnt have said it.

To the original poster, if your timing is set correctly, ignition is working well, and you arent fouling plugs, then I would guess that your compression is just too low and uneven a**** the banks to run well and smoothly. I'd guess that at a minimum you will have to put in a new set of rings. Since its apart that far, it wouldnt make sense to me to reuse the old main/rod bearings.

Even with new rings and bearings, you could still get this thing running pretty inexpensively, provided that the pistons and bores are in good enough condition. That said, you wont be doing too large of burnouts with a stock flathead

 

Wow everone has an opinion so take the knowledge people are giving you and make the decision your comfortable with and give it a try good luck.

 

I agree with F&J and briggsandstrattonChev thats exactly what I'd do.I've started old,worn motors with a little shot of starting fluid before.A couple of squirts of oil in the cylinders isn't enough to hydraulic it.If it fires up it might shake the rings loose enough to run,but be prepared to tear it down soon cause I don't think it's gonna make much of a difference in compression.So I guess that makes 3 stupid mechanics.Just my 2 cents.

 

I like the idea of putting a 12v in it to crank it in this situation. Make sure that carb is clean and working properly,accelerator pump is pumping. You can dump gas down the throat but to get the best results the carb needs to work. if it ran for a few seconds it should be able to run longer.
If the rings are stuck I dought it will ever run well.
I would hone the cyls and ring it.

 

I'd bet the rings are stuck from rust being on them...you could loading up the cyclinders with PB plaster or Krooils...you know, some type of "rust buster"...for a few day and see if it helps...if not much luck or no better, thye might be held in by carbon, so you'd need the approprite chemical to dissovle that...then there's the real good possiblity a few rings are broken...all said and done, I think you might be time and money ahead just popping the pistons out and taking a look at what you have.

If it's an engine you want to run as-is, without spending mouch money on it, you'd probably be wanting to run a hone through the cylinders anyway to see if you can smooth out the scars you've put in it.

 

I enjoyed it.

 

Jim, If it ran for 5 seconds it is probably going to run. I would do the following:
Pull the plugs which are probably oil fouled and clean them

Turn it over with the plugs out for 10-15 seconds to clear the cylinders.

Don't dump any more oil down it.

Check to see if the carb jets are squirting fuel.

Put the plugs in and prime the carb a splash and try it.

If it starts and doesn't continue to run it's probably fuel pump or carb.
Try dribbling a little from a can to keep it running and then you will know whats up ----maybe

 

Ya, go for it. The engine doesn't have to be "perfect" to start it. If it'll fire up, listen carefully for knocking sounds: if you hear them, shut 'er down - now! If not, let the engine level out, warm up and go about checking the things you've outlined. So what if it smokes a lot. I used to see flatties runnin around in the mid sixties (they'd piled up a bunch of miles by then and were'nt worth a decent engine rebuild - especially those cars in the Great Lakes rust belt region) with smoke pouring out of the tailpipe AND the road draft tube!
BTW, I started a '29 Mpdel A banger about a dozen years ago. Cleaned the carb, new points, new oil, hot wired a 6V lantern battery to the coil, 12V to the starter, a few shots of oil into the cylinders. It fired up! Sputtered to life first on one cylinder, then 2, 3, and then all 4. Shoulda seen the **** (fireworks) flyin' outa the exhaust pipe (muffler rotted off decades ago). Probably pyro-ed a couple of mouse abodes. Rattled like a kid shaking a can of marbles, but my boys and I drove it around the yard several times. Yes, I do know the engine needs a "complete". That'll be on my agenda in the near future.

 

Jim 49flathead
I haven't read in your posts whether you have checked out the fuel system. If you know the tank in clean and the carburetor float bowl is clean then disreguard. I'm doing the same task on an old 51 Mercury right now and most of my problems are fuel system related but I'm just about there. If you have a 12-volt battery where you can hook it up for the starter only and hot wire the coil to your 6-volter for running, it will spin faster and won't hurt anything electrical that way.

If your getting compression, spark, & fuel it should run. Might smoke bad but you already know that. I just want mine running well enough to move it around until I can put my spare motor in there.

Break a Leg and welcome to the HAMB.
Kerby

 

can someone please explain to me why it would be so bad to use starting fluid on a hard to start engine? If I dont start my car for a week or so I always have to use starting fluid.

 

FLATHEAD...it's plain and simple, REBUILD the engine! those old piston rings are shot, not to mention needing a valve job big time!...POP.

 

Won't hurt a thing, used properly. It's just vaporized hydrocarbon or radical solvent, depending on the contents........(liquid in the can but vaporized when you spray it).

 

I too have used starting fluid on stuck old engines. I had a 57 ford with a 292 Y block, bought it out of a field and it was missing both valve covers, one rocker ***embly and air cleaner. I doused it with oil and after awhile got it turning over. Nothing went clunk when I hit it with the starter, so I scrounged up a set of rocker arms for the one side, threw another 2 barrel on it and within minutes I had the old ****** fired up. I dumped a little marvel mystery oil down the carb and turned it over a couple times, then filled the carb up through the vent tube. Cranked and would sputter but didn't want to start. After a few minutes, I refilled the float bowl and hit it with some ether (starting fluid). Couple times of that and it was good to go!

It ran really ****ty and quiet for a minute, then I throttled it up trying to clear it up and KABOOM...blew the muffler into pieces and blew mouse nest/**** halfway across the yard. Ran great after that!

The only problem I had wit that car was after it sat a few days a few of the valves would stick and it would bend a pushrod. I would fire it up and it would miss like a ******, so pop off a valve cover, work the valve free with some oil, change the pushrod and away I'd go again hahaha

 

All too often engines will not start because of issues like the timing being off. Then somebody loads em with starting fluid. Then bad things happen during the inevitable backfire.

Despite the claim on the can, I've never been able to unflood an engine with the stuff. It is useful as a subs***ute fuel when the carb is dry, but aerosol carb cleaner works better.

 

Guys,finally found something to replace starting fluid,without worring abot internal or bodily harm.This stuff will start any type engine,gas or diesel,lawn mower or tractors that have been ran ot of fuel,and we all know what a h***le that can be.you dont even have to remove air filter.as long as you spray into carb or air filter,engine wiLL run.If engine shuts down after spray stops you definitly have a fuel supply issue.This stuff is good and cheap! N.A.P.A. HEAVY DUTY SILICONE SPREY PART NO.091422.its made by C.R.C.I"ve started numerous trucks,tractors and old set up engines and never has this stuff failed me.

 

WD40 works as well for starting fluid, plus you get the benefit of the lubricates.

 

^Most silicones are propelled by propane, which is why it probably works as a starting agent.