Cars for sale w/o titles

I'm the same way. Friend of mine bought a '64 Sport Fury a few years ago with no ***le, got a "***le" from one of those services, and restored it. Spent about 20K in the process. Couple years ago, Kansas uploaded the stolen vehicle database from 15 to 30 years ago into their computers. Bada bing, the Fury was picked up as stolen. Cops came and got it, do not p*** go, do not collect $200, and merry Christmas to the guy who had an old used car stolen and got it back as a well restored collectible.

No thanks.

 

For me, no ***le, no buy. I'm not taking any chances.

 

I got that info from doing a Google search for "non ***le states" are you saying Google made a mistake ? I'm just glad I live in NH. You guys who are insisting you'll NEVER buy a car with no ***le are welcome to your opinion but that means there are several states where perfectly legitimate cars will be available for the rest of us. Good for us, sad for you.. Most of the New England states for example do not use ***les for older cars. If that means you'll stay away from our cars then so be it but VIN tags in ***le states get swapped by theives every day and resold with ***les too and all you have to do is take a look on here and see how many ***les "for historical purposes" are for sale everyday. Part of my job working for a used car dealer who also does state inspections is to check VIN numbers and sign the NH VIN verification forms for older cars. If I see a repro VIN tag held on with pop rivets that someone had made up to match their "historical ***le" my job is to call the State of NH ***le & anti theft department and have them send a cop to check it out. I guess some of ya will only feel safe buying one owner cars from little old ladys. Old Buzzard my boss sells a ton of cars to guys from M*** as well as M*** dealers buy them because of the no sales tax thing here in NH. We give them a bill of sale & a signed VIN verification form. They go to M*** DMV and get issued a new M*** ***le. It really is that simple.

 

I'll never go through it again. Unless I move back to Kansas.

 

I do hear what you're saying and I understand that some states are making it very hard for us old car guys. What you're not realizing with this comment is that in non-***le states such as NH we CAN NOT get a ***le if the car is over 15 years old. It's not a "song & dance" just the truth. They will not give you one no matter how much you're willing to pay or who you know because we don't need one. To let you all in on a secret, the way some of the ***le companys get you a ***le is really simple. They have a connection in a non ***le state such as NH who "sells" them your car on paper with a bill of sale & VIN verification. They take that paperwork to their state and get a new ***le issued and then they "sell" the car to you and sign the ***le over to you. That's why it takes a month to process the paperwork.

 

I got a ***le with mine, the only problem is there is a lien on the truck and after I bought the truck the seller died. What a mess. The motor vehicle depart. wont issue a ***le change until the lien is taken care of and the lien holder wont release it as I think she wants the truck. I'm waiting her out as she is 87 and wont last forever, but I will have to deal with her estate later.
Getting a ***le with the vehicle isn't fool proof.

 

Sure, and I think a lot of us know that. The problem comes in when there is a claim on that ***le elsewhere - a lien or stolen vehicle claim, or even a past owner who sold the vehicle, finds out somehow that it's never been ***led, and files a duplicate ***le in his own state. A lot of that stuff is darn near impossible to predict or defend ourselves from.

 

I live in Illinois, it's still possible to get a ***le,(sometimes), but getting harder. My last project was a ***le nightmare. If you really love that next project without a ***le, go for it. From now on if it don't have a good ***le, I don't mess with it. There are still plenty of projects out there with ***les. Dealing with the DMV can take the fun out of it, before you turn the first wrench. If yor looking for a truck cab with a ***le, for a project, I know where's there's a '41 Fargo with ***le in northwest Illinois.

 

No ***le is too weird for me too. I went to see one and it was really nice but, no ***le.
The look on the guys face when I asked if he'd part it out was worth the price of admission.

 

Absolutely I agree. I don't condone it, just letting the guys here know how XYZ ***le Service and those guys do the paper shuffle. What I am curious about is how these guys who are buying vintage ***les "for historical purposes" are getting away with using them for other cars. Is nobody checking the numbers to see if they match ? What if the original car suddenly surfaces ? Are their now 2 cars on the books with the same VIN ? If it's a secret please PM me. It's got me curious. And I see people selling brand new blank VIN tags you can stamp your own info on. Are the DMV guys in some states really that stupid that they don't know the difference between a VIN tag made by Ford 70 years ago from one made by Billy Bob last week or are they just not checking ? I would think that would be a great way to risk having your car impounded at some later date by a cop who took the time to look.

 

I have bought many cars from N.C. with out ***les (just bill of sale) including my 1950 Chevy 3100. I have gotten many ***les here in MI. They ask a lot of questions at our secretary of state office, but I am able to get a ***le with in a hr. In N.C. you can s**** a car that is 10 yrs old with out a ***le. WTF!

 

Yes, you are 100% right. It is done. It is fraud, if the buyer is unaware of the forgery, and collusion on the part of the buyer if he knows.

 

I don't know if this will add anything to this discussion but I've always found it interesting and a testament to gov't ********:

About ten years ago my girlfriend's grandfather gave me an old Puch motorcycle he had had since the 70's. It was a basket case but I did a mild resto on it and got it roadworthy again. I decided I wanted to register and plate it but gramps couldn't find the ***le. I took him to the BMV so he could apply for a lost ***le. They said they no longer had any record of it and that he could not apply because there was no way to prove his ownership. Then the lady said HOWEVER if he wrote me a bill of sale stating he had sold me the bike that I could apply for a lost ***le???? We did it right there and I applied for one and got it. Never understood how he didn't have enough legal ownership of the bike to get his own ***le but somehow he did have enough to say he sold it to me and I could get a ***le.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the comment you made about "them" getting the ***le for you. If the seller is in a non-***le state such as NH it simply can't be done. No song & dance about it. Just not possible. You post kinda insinuated that a seller advertising a car without a ***le might be trying to pull some shady ****. There are MANY states that simply do not issue ***les for old cars. Nothing at all shady about it. It's just the way it is. If buying one of those cars and trying to register it in your state is a h***le take it up with your state government. It's not the sellers fault you live in a state that makes it difficult.

 

They will not get a ***le in M*** 'till they pay a sales tax here.

 

Never said otherwise. Just that it's done everyday. And don't forget the excise tax M*** bangs you with every year as well. I lived there for 10 years back in the 70s. Never again.

 

around here you need to check w/ DMV, rules (not laws) change like the weather!
looking for parts, I found my old '66 F-85, bought it for s**** $ . the guy was glad I wanted it back!! he had the ***le in storage, but lost his copy. the dmv couldn't get him the ***le w/out the ***le #... Oh i have an old reg. from when i owned it. no good , it has a differnt #.. just bond it they told us! no you have the ***le !!! yes but we went to all ***puter records now and every thing before that was thrown out !!!! JUST BOND IT!!! " no you have my Fu##### ***le!!!! and we are both standing here!!! I called my friend that is the DMV inspector, he said it was the dumb'st thing he had ever heard!! but said its thier rules!

 

If you are not selling it what differance does it make you can get plates with out a ***le none of my drag cars have ***les all ya do with a ***le is make revenue for you state and mn ****s on there ***le stuff now ,there setting values oh thank you barrett jackson!!! the dmv in mn is clueless on how it should work

 

No ***les in NY for cars over 25 years old, just a "Transferable Registration."

 

For the people that are dealing in stolen cars - they have there ways. - Some of you may recall about 1 year ago I ask for AND GOT help with a 48 buick sudanette stolen from my adopted grandmother. Stolen from her poperty in front of her house. I ask the local hot rodders to keep there eyes open and they did - about 5 months after that car and tractor was stolen I got a phone call from 1 of the local guys that had a sighting of the car at a junk yard - the car was for sale for 5000 - we confirmed the location of the car and contacted the Sherrifs department with all the info we had on how it came to be there. We found out thru other car guys that the car was stolen - hidden for about 4 months - then a mechanics lean was sent off from by a car lot/ garage that was responsable for the theft. Once the lean ***le was issued the car was sold to the car lot side of the "crew" then resold to the junk yard that owned the haulback that had originaly stole the car - unfotunatly by the time the sherrifs detective moved on our info the car had gone underground again or was sold the next day - so they have ways so sometime even a ***le does not mean the car is "Clean" - Ja**

 

Every state is different. I just got my A pickup ***led in Utah. The state came out and gave it a VIN number. The whole process cost me $12.85. It couldn't have been easier. The workers at the DMV/Tax commision seemed more interested in helping me get a ***le than finding reasons not to.

 

I build several pkg steel 32 roadsters a year and they go all over the US. I never get involved in the ***le process other than a bill of sale. I have no idea how the buyers get their ***les and I have never been contacted by them or their state DMV. I also have quit doing turnkey repro roadsters for customers. I talked to Dave from Brizios not to long ago and he said they were sticking to building do***ented original cars. Just to many problems in CA. There are not affordable that many original cars left to go around. Make a segment of the hobby just for the deep pockets.

 

This is what I'm wandering about. I'm picking up a mid-early 30's ford tomarrow "couldn't tell from all the snow last time I saw it". It's just the cab. The farmer used it's frame with many other cars frames that are out there for fence ends. It's been there since the 60s. So no vin right. I'll get a bill of sale. What do you all do to get a vin and ***le when you put an aftermarket frame under an old body? I guessing it would be easier to buy a correct frame with good ***le on the H.A.M.B.

 

Ditto:
Thru some rough and expensive experiences here In Illinois I will wait for the right car with a clear ***le and verify the numbers match and have not been altered.

 

I don't know about your state but here if it is not ***led you don't get it registered!

 

Done it in 4 states, never had a problem. ***le-less cars can be a goldmine if you're patient enough to wait the process out.

The secret is
A- know the ***le rules better than a clerk before you go in. The rules are all online and can be printed out if you fear the clerk won't know the letter of the law. Having printed copies and appearing prepared will greatly help with step B

B- be politely persistent and if the clerk won't help, ask for a supervisor. Don't leave the DMV empty handed. Either leave with a ***le or a direct phone number for the supervisor that will act as your caseworker. You have to press the point that you'll keep coming back and wasting hours of their time, but it's still gotta be polite.

C- don't be afraid to change DMV locations. "helpfulness" tends to vary office to office, some are ruled by petty tyrants, others are ruled like a public service.

D- pay parts car price up front. The whole process is a lot less stressful if in the back of your head you know it can be chopped up. S**** yards won't take whole cars without ***les, but they will take two halves of a car, delivered a month apart

 

Oh, I wasn't implying that you were confused.

As far as shady ****, it's my guess, for certain in ***le states, if the seller can''t get a ***le, then the odds are he knows something is up, otherwise he would jump at the opportunity to get a ***le if it was possible to enhance the sale. A car without a ***le, versis one with a ***le? Hands down, with a ***le it's worth more money. Since I have never sold a car without a ***le, I was just looking at it from what has actually happens to me, as a buyer. .

 

Not even remotely accurate.

I've bought cars from people so lazy it's for sale because a tire keeps going flat, and won't air it up for a test drive. They're not gonna file for ***le if it's missing. Just look at the perceptions woven thru this thread about how hard it can be. Honestly, dirt poor people are the worst in that regard. You'd think it would be opposite.

Man is a very simple beast. If you ***ume laziness is the primary motivator of everything we do, you'll be right more often than not.

 

Cars without ***les are just a bunch of parts bolted together.

 

I won't buy anything without a ***le unless I can get it at s**** or 'parts car' price (as Shifty suggested.) You used to be able to work around it in Tennessee by getting a builder, abandoned or salvage ***le with a bill of sale, etc. but it's nearly impossible now.

A few years back I bought a '76 Corvette out of Georgia, the owner didn't have a ***le, as no ***les are required for vehicles older than 1978 there.

BUT...

When I went to get a ***le here the VIN came up that the car had been previously ***led, therefore I needed the ***le before I could put it in my name.

Again, as Shifty said, you better know the letter of the law.

Even when I have a ***le I try not spending too much $$$ on a car till I get it back from the state with MY name on the ***le.