Cars for sale w/o titles

Hey the bottom line here is with out a ***le in most states you cannot prove ownership! a Bill of sale alone is only as good as the paper it is written on "Might as well be toilet paper" and the only one who will profit will be the lawyers who end up getting involved! I am not afraid to say it!!!!! if you purchase a ***le and apply it to another vehicle you are being dishonest and breaking the law no matter what state you are in! The same is the case with going thru a ***le source since you know they are doing that same thing for you! So anyone who takes that chance deserves the greif he recieves should they get caught! I personally will not take the chance and will only buy a car with a good clean ***le no bill of sale bull shi&(*^^!

 

Originally Posted by 29nash
, if the seller can''t get a ***le, then the odds are he knows something is up, otherwise he would jump at the opportunity to get a ***le if it was possible to enhance the sale.

Please recount an actual, remotely (accurate) scenario where the owner couldn't get a ***le on a car he sold you, but you could. (legally)

 

Hmm I always thought manning up as you say was to do the right thing not the dishonest thing! Sorry but breaking the law is by no means manning up! That is what is wrong with our world now days thinking like yours!

 

That's a great idea.. Buy a ***le that belongs to a different car, buy a bogus blank tag & stamp your numbers in it, dump 20k into building the car into something really cool, and then have the police impound it when they catch what you've done during a routine traffic stop, vehicle inspection, etc. Spend another 10k for a lawyer to keep your damn fool *** out of jail trying to prove you "bought it that way" and still lose the car.. Go with that plan. Let us know how it works out for ya.... Hell why even build a car, just steal one and do the same thing...

 

It's not a case of couldn't

It's a case of wouldn't

You're making the ***umption that sellers have the same motivation you do, which just isn't true. Many of them truly don't give a ****.

A person can approach that situation 2 ways, either ***uming the seller is hiding something, or ***uming the seller is too lazy to do the paperwork.

Anyone who spends time on the fringe of society will see these situations repeat themselves. Eventually you realize there's no criminal action behind most of it, just lazy people who don't value paperwork.

Like so much else in life, there's profit to be made with risk and knowledge.

 

In Missouri it's illegal to buy or sell a vehicle without a ***le. It also seems that the State is tightening up on guys trying to ***le old cars. I have a friend that bought a '25 Dodge pickup that was made into a hot rod last year. He got a really old ***le from the '30s with the truck and the State won't tranfer ownership. He's paying a lawyer to try and get it straightned out.

I've seen and heard too many stories and won't buy a vehicle without a clear ***le.

 

Shifty Shifterton;
If you are going to reply to my post, don’t change what I said in my quote then reply to it as if you are replying to me. When you re-write somebody’s quote then reply to it, that’s kind of like answering yourself???
　
　
Here is my sentence as I posted it;

As far as shady ****, it's my guess, for certain in ***le states, if the seller can''t get a ***le, then the odds are he knows something is up, otherwise he would jump at the opportunity to get a ***le if it was possible to enhance the sale.
　
　
　
Here is my sentence after you edited it with your reply. You cut off the first part of the sentence, then cut words out of the middle, apparently to construct a sentence that you could disagree with. WTF??

<TABLE dir=ltr border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=12 width=624><TBODY><TR><TD height=61 vAlign=center>, if the seller can''t get a ***le, then the odds are he knows something is up, otherwise he would jump at the opportunity to get a ***le if it was possible to enhance the sale.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

You're banging your head against a wall here, the dude is a total kook, that will argue to death even when it's proven he's wrong over and over. I understand exactly what you're saying. Here in North Carolina there are steps to go through to get a legit ***le. Most are to lazy to do the work.

And I really like the way the kook is saying you misquoted him. You took the relative snippit you wanted to reply to and now he cry's foul.

 

"If you are not selling it what differance does it make you can get plates with out a ***le"
Yes you can get plates.However,you may have a bit of 'splaining to do if you get in a wreck and the insurance company finds out the ***le numbers dont match the body tag. That has happened and it is a costly mess.Not to mention the felony charge.

 

Out here on the left coast, we are beginning to experience the fallout from "creative ***le-ing". For now, it is in response to all of these new 'gl*** or steel cars registered as what they appear to be. Greedy people got crafty. Disaster has been averted, for now.

All we need now is some more jokers to get caught doing this nonsense to open up the scrutiny a broader scale. Who knows what heavy-handed tactic will come next. Older vehicles banned outright? Upgraded to current safety standards? Required to be smogged?

If you state requires a ***le, and can be ***led, then get a ***le for it. If it can't be ***led, just let it go.

To do otherwise is often fraud, and it is wrong. No two ways about it. Just don't do it. You will ruin things for everyone.

We need to protect out hobby.

 

I have a 1950 Chevrolet in the garage I went down with the right forms and got plates on the same day. It didn't come with a registration. I got a transferrable in the mail a few weeks later, no problem, and cost no more than if I'd had one in the first place. Yeah, the guy I got it from could probably have done it, but it was easier to just do it myself. New York makes it so easy you don't even need to have anything notarized. In fact, you could probably get a registration without even having the car if you had the tag off it. Of course if the number did turn up hot you could have a problem then, but...

Later on after that I sold a '58 Chevy Sedan Delivery to a guy who I gave the same info to and he eventually registered it; my buddy that I deal cars with "bought" one of his trucks from me over this last summer; and so on. No problem at all here. I think the state figured out that if they made it easier for us, they'd make more money out of it.

You guys who are scared to death of cars because someone lost a 3x4 card or a 6x6 sheet of paper 20 years ago really only hurt yourself. A lot of cars get stolen, but a great many more just get old and sit and people lose those little pieces of paper. Watch the original Gone In Sixty Seconds - they show you just how it was done back then in the beginning of it: They buy a wrecked Dodge Challenger at an insurance auction for cheap. Then they steal an identical one off the street. The rest is labor to swap the dash tag, fender tag, I think that one they went so far as to swap the engine block too. Then they sell it at another dealer auction and it ends up on a used car lot.

Now in the movie, somehow the police get su****ious and they have to steal it back and send it through the shredder, but how many thousands of cars were stolen and no one ever got wise? You read enough reports of stolen cars that turn up 30 years later that no one bothered to change the tags on, I don't think I've ever heard of one that was discovered with a tag swap.

20 years ago no registration here in NY was a big h***le, you had to get this form notarized and that form notarized, we tried it once and every time we went back to the DMV they wanted some other thing signed. I wound up buying a tag and registration from another truck for that one, then it started to knock so I junked it. But you would not believe how many cars I find in junkyards with the tags missing because it was so much easier to buy a registration and a tag than hop through all those hoops. Early 60s GM and Chrysler tags that were on the door post fall off all on their own, too, it's not like they had to put much effort into it.


So I don't see where a car with seemingly clear paperwork is any more or less of a gamble to buy than one that has nothing. And if we're talking something that's been sitting since the 1950s, even if it was stolen, is there any record of that anywhere anymore?

No, it's 1972 and older cars. And given the money trouble the state is in, that's not likely to change, given every new ***le is $50. Don't tell them what they're doing in MA -

 

If you go back to the original post you will see that the poster is from Illinois and the process is totally different than NY. I don't care where you are and what the situation is taking a tag and ***le from one car and using it on another is still a Felony offence! and can and will land you in jail! owning a car without a ***le is also illegal in many states it may not be in NY but is in Illinois just not strictly enforced. To buy or not to buy is the question and to take the risk or not on a car with no clear ***le is a choice each must make,

 

Man I keep seeing these posts where someone says it's "illegal" to buy a car without a ***le in their state. Please show me the Illinois law that says you aren't allowed to buy a vehicle from a state that dosn't require a ***le on older cars such as NH where I live. Not some he said, she said ********. Give me a link to the Illinois state law or statute or whatever that says that. I'm sure there is a process for getting a ***le in those cases. How can the state tell you where you can and can't buy a car from ? If there is any law even remotely similar to what you're saying it probably says you can't buy a car from a seller in your own state without a ***le.If that's really how it is please send all the non ***led older cars you can find to me here in NH and I'll gladly buy them all. I'll pay over what the s**** dealers will give you and I'll pay cash...

 

Sorry don't have the legal EEE's for ya but the guys in Illinois who have had bodies confi****ed or have put them into hiding would surely agree with my statements! Any way unless you have proof otherwise?? I am only giving a word to the wise! but you and all others who know better can do as you want! Guess we just agree to disagree. IMO

 

All you guys p***ing on good deals because there is no ***le, let me have a crack at 'em....

I aint skeerd

Rich

 

We don't have to dissagree. I was bored so I did it for you.. Like one of the other guys said. Alot of times people are just too lazy to look into what the rules really are and follow them.. Here is the law for Illinois residents when applying for a new ***le for older cars that fall into the "street rod" or "custom" category. There was a half page of other mumbo jumbo & legal **** that I'm not posting but the general message is that it can be done as long as you can prove where you bought the car or the parts used to build the car.. Specifically read #3 This information is taken directly from the Illinois motor vehicle website... Please note it clearly says you must provide ONE of the following.
"Source do***entation for the frame, including a VIN. This do***entation must be one of the following:

1. 
   1
2. Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin for the frame (if a new frame is being utilized as in a kit car); or
   2
3. Certificate of ***le for the vehicle from which the frame was obtained; or
   3
4. The applicant may apply for a ***le, without ownership do***entation, if he/she submits bills of sales and utilizes the bonding procedures set forth in 625 ILCS 5/3-109.
   4
5. Source do***entation, along with bills of sale or other ownership do***ents, for the engine and all essential parts.
   5
6. Four (4) photographs of the completed vehicle (front, rear, and both sides).
   6
7. A statement describing how the vehicle was constructed."

 

this might help some of you worked out good for me
http://www.its-***les.com/15price.htm

 

Thanks but your not telling us anything new what you have missed is that the issue we disagreed on is not how to get a ***le In Illinois but that you must get a ***le in Illinois. Believe me I fully understand the procedure you have posted since I have been thru the h***les that go along with it! But you should have read further this is for a new built vehicle like a Kit car there is another for getting a ***le for a vehicle that was previously ***led but that you dont have the ***le for. Thanks anyhow but the fact still remains that you need a ***le for any vehicle in the Land of Obama.

 

I give up.. Of course you need a ***le if you live in any state where they are required.. What you said was that it was illegal to buy a car without one. It is NOT. There is a procedure for getting one that has to be followed. Nothing more/nothing less. #1 on my previous post applies to "kit cars" the rest apply to any car and as I said, it clearly states that you must have ONE of those forms of proof of ownership, not all of them. Have a good night. I'm done

 

I didn't intend to argue! the state of Illinois seems to have declared war on hotrod ***les and there are many who have encountered major difficulties. I was just trying to give a heads up. Sorry! I think we agree there is a correct procedure in each state and we should follow that procedure. Later!

 

Dude all I did was edit your quote to it's essential. Just like I did with this one. There was no re-organizing your words or manipulation. Just a simple cut so the reader didn't have to follow 3 paragraphs. If you're not cool with that then you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how message boards work.

It's also obvious that only one of us buys cars without ***les and then corrects the situation. Hopefully my experience-based comments are useful to a HAMBr seeking ***le.

good luck to everyone

 

The commonwealth of M***achusetts ( the wealth of the commoners belongs to M***achusetts ) is a wicked pain in the ***. Got a car with no ***le? Get ready for an epic journey through a maze of stupid forms, stamps, inspections and ****oloid rmv types. Getting "proof of ownership" papers on 60 year old hunk of steel is even harder than mining for ore, smelting it, and building a car out of that.

 

no ***le no deal

 

Why are you guys in the NO ***LE states so happy that you don't need a ***le? I'd be pissed as the ***le is the legal do***ent that PROVES ownership of the car. I only need to obtain the ***le once, so no big deal....after that it just the yearly registration. Clear PINK SLIP is the way to go!!