reason for non metal roof on A's and T's ??

hey guys, pardon my non knowledge, but ive noticed that most every model A and model T has the vinyl/convertible top material roof over a frame. what is the reason for that, is that because the car came that way back then or is it more akin to what minitruck guys do with a rollback roof instead of a solid metal roof?

thanks

 

No. It was just the style of the day, and inserts were found in Fords up to 1936. It was one of the last vestiges from the horse/buggy days, the other being transverse mounted leaf springs.

 

In reality Henry wasnt able to get a press big enough ,or a tool of such a size to make a roof skin

 

I like the minitruck reason. Yep. It's because the minitruckers were doing it! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

 

Making the roof section out of a single stamp would have been near impossible and it was easier & cheaper to do a vinyl roof.

 

Ford did not have the technology perfected to produce a solid "turret" top in one piece until 1937. Stu

 

Yep, stamping/engineering wasn't up to stamping large roof sections until the latter half of the 30's, so it was chicken wire with fabric.
I can imagine all the attempts and adjustments that were made to overcome the hurdle of tweaked, and rippled stampings.
If they exist, it would be interesting to see some engineering papers and photos of the early failures.

 

I've always heard that it was Chrysler that was the first production one piece roof. and Ford and GM were forced to follow as usual

 

There weren't any ribbed station wagon roofs to use yet.

 

I suppose the question should be, why did Henry use a cloth insert instead of stamping a piece of tin to fill the opening - and the answer is it was probably cheaper to use the chicken wire and cloth. I mean, large or not it wouldn't have been too bad to stamp a piece that could have gone in in place of the cloth by 1930 or so, certainly if they could stamp a coupe quarter panel they could have stamped a mildly curved piece with the edges folded over.

 

I think they did it because it was ...Traditional

 

They were just born that way, kinda like how did that white **** got into the middle of *****ies.

 

It would have required a large press. To understand how large, the following formula provides a base line:

Perimeter of the profile in inches X thickness of material in inches X tensile strength of material in tons = press tonnage.

Using rough estimate for the roof opening of 6 ft (72") and a width of 3 ft (36") you end up with a perimeter of 72"+36"+72"+36" = 216"

And

Thickness of 20 gauge sheet metal of .0359"

And

Tensile strength of mild steel of 25 tons / sq. inch

you end up with

216" X .0359" X 25 = 193 Ton Press!!!!!

I worked at GM's metal fab plant in Grand Rapids. The biggest panel we made was a floor panel (progressive die, meaning it's formed in multiple steps). I want to remember it was a 200 Ton press...The plant was over a million sq ft, and when that press ran I could watch my soda can / coffee cup / etc vibrate and move on my desk half the plant away.

 

Technology! there, wasn't that simple?

Frank

 

A person has to be careful what they post because someone will come along and mess it up with actual facts. I think flamed34 posted his reply just before I was going to explain it all.

 

The last run of the 1931 ford pickups had a full metal roof with the visor and roof stamped at once so it was the price.

 

That chicken wire in my 36 coupe was the Radio antenna, and it worked good.

 

Turret top 1934 was the first one piece coupe or sedan roof and GM had a pretty large advertising campaign to promote the new technology.

 

I believe the all steel 31 cab was built bu Budd wasn't it.

 

The pickup roof is much smaller than a whole roof panel for even an A sedan, requiring both a smaller blank and less press tonnage.

 

The size, as stated, was the factor. The roof of a pickup is relatively small compared to the top of a full sedan roof.

 

I wonder if it was because that's how cars had traditionally been made - What the customer expected.

I can't imagine it would be cheaper to machine all the bits of wood, brackets screws, nuts and bolts, buy the cloth (which cant have been cheap) then ***emble it all together ensuring it was water tight.

When you look at some of the heavy machines around in the day to bend/roll/forge parts for ships, bridges and railway locomotives etc 200 tones doesn't seem a lot of tonnage.

Maybe it was a combination of all the factors, cost/marketing/tooling etc.

 

Budd is noted as having the first all steel construction.
Chrysler sedans still had an insert in 36 albeit a vinyl covered steel insert, not a one piece roof panel.

 

The Late 31 Model Pickup was the first Ford vehicle with an all steel roof, and it was built by the Budd Company. It still had wood header and rear and side strips.

 

Actually, the truth is, Henry had a premonition one night in his sleep. It told him that many years later his automobiles were to be made into sweet rat rods, and they needed the roof open so their shifter could stick out and stuff.

 

Ok, Crash...now THAT was funny!

 

I'm suprised some of the older, better informed guys haven't told you this. Everything was better in the good old days. All old cars had that hole in the roof. That's because, like everything else in the good old days the weather was always great. Those are permenet sun roofs and we were all taller and stuck our heads through that big hole to better enjoy the drive. The only time the weather was ever bad is when we had to walk 10 miles to school the snow was up to our a**, it was up hill both ways, the wind blew 20 mph - and we liked it!

 

I like how you can watch the evolution of stamping technology, in short order, in the Model A, and its successors. Just look at the difference between '28-'29 and '30-'31.

Coach to car in about a decade.

 

now thats a proper answer!!
thanks, I learned something awesome today

 

Those are interesting because the top and visor is one piece. But they use wood behind the doors and across the top, under the bead the roof and back panel are nailed in place.