When cold (about 50-60 degrees here) the car starts very easily, but takes forever to heat up. This morning, I started the car, let it warm up, drove around for about thrity minutes and parked it. It won't start back up. Even after sitting 30 minutes. (it is still hot) I have a feeling when it cools off that it will fire right up, but I am not sure how to properly adjust this thing to start hot. Even if I play with it and get it to start hot, it probably won't like starting when it is cold.... what should I try to do to find the happy place? Edelbrock 600 w/electric choke - Looks just like a carter AFB w/electric choke It was about 50 degrees this morning if that helps any. A push in the right direction would be helpful, I know very little about troubleshooting motors-carbs, etc.
390 fuel pump runs on cam lobe - er ?? mechanical Should the choke flap close all the way when the gas peddle is pumped?
The choke flap should be open when the car's warmed up, it should never close while pumping the gas. If the car runs good when it is warm, you're choke probably isn't closed. If it were, it would run like shit. Is this something that started happening instantly, or was it gradual? I would check the plugs to see if they're black and sooty from an oover rich mixture first. You could also have a bad condensor that's breaking down when it gets hot. Condensors will give you nightmares.
Good fire & fuel. Someone please correct this if it is incorrect: The engine size shouldn't matter should it? (as far as adjusting the carb? A carb can be tuned on a big block motor and then moved to a small block motor and it should still react about the same as it did except for fine tuning? If it is a carborator problem, I think it is the electric choke that I am clueless about how to set it up properly... I think I have to bend some rods.
Yeh.. choke is wide open. Just curious - If I was runnning way to rich, would I be able to notice my gas tank emptying faster? The car was running smooth. I don't understand why the plugs would be firing so well and then notfire when I try to start it up.
Sorry I didn't answer your question. Just instantly... but maybe it has been like this for awhile. Let me explain. This is the first time I have let the motor warm up since the rebuild and tried to restart it when hot. I have warmed the car up about 15 times to break the motor in and it is smooth as silk. Went driving around the block a few times, but always parked it, went inside and assumed all was dandy. Then today I figured... what the hell I am going to cruise around some more and BAM! no start when hot. I am glad I didn't stall or the car die or get stuck at the store or something.
Lets talk vapor lock. Is this a symptom? The carb is hot... I mean it was steaming when I pulled the breather, but the temperature was well withing operating range. 1/4 of the way between C --*---------H hehhe - like that.
Ok, I think I Might also have some bad gas.... I has a few misses and thwumps that I forgot about because the motor only did it for a few seconds and then it cleared so I figured it was fuel related. Was probably a little water in there.
Is the car turning over slowly? If so, it's possible your engine clearances are too tight when it warms up. The steaming carb doesn't sound too good. Take some damp rags and cool the carb and fuel lines and see if it'll start any easier. Is there excessive blowby coming from your PCV valve or breather? Newly rebuilt engines do have excessive blowby until they're broken in.
This motor has a very fast starter. It is spinning plenty fast enough to start, but not quite as fast as when it was cold. Someone pointed out once that on a hot start, you are spinning agaisnt the pressures of the engine, and that is normal. Once I get it started again, I will check all that stuff out. - I am new to all this. Thanks for the help and fresh ideas. I will post back later.
My 2 Bits... You could be flooding when warm. If your float is bad, or if your needle is worn, some fuel may be dribbling in after you shut your car off. Since you've only restarted your car after many hours have passed, this left over fuel may have evaporated and you can start easily. If your float is really bad, you'll have problems at idle, which you don't seem to be having. If you let your car get warm, shut off, and then try to start after a minute or two with problems, try this. Just hold the accelerator to the floor when trying to start. Do not pump, just hold it down. Even hold it down for about 10-20 seconds before turing over. If it starts that way, you are getting flooded somehow. Holding down the accelerator during start allows a leaner situation. The choke problem you are trying to solve is related to what you think is a rich situation. This is another way to work around that. Make any sense? Sorry if this is all a no brainer to you but this stuff is hard to do on a BBS. Mike
I had the very same issues with a 460 Ford. It took me a long time to figure out the problem. What I did; 1, ditched the electric choke for a manual one. 2, replaced the intake manifold for an edelbroke piece thus eliminating the Ford heat riser and vacumn actuater. 3, replaced the mechanical pump with an electric pump. the damned thing still wouldn't run but I finally traced it to a rusty fuel tank. The filter would plug up and the jets. I also replaced the fuel lines. I never did bother to flush the tank, but the 460 was sooo danmned thirsty that it flushed all the sediment into the filter. 58 FOrd, it alwasy started and ran like a top after that. I would also make sure that the choke is getting juice
Ok, We need to back up a little here. It sounds to me like this was the first time since the rebuild that you have tried to start the motor after it has reached opperating tempature. I think I would start with checking the timing first. If the motor starts up good when it is cold and the choke is open once the motor is warmed up the choke has NOTHING to do with your problem.DO NOT mess with the choke, or the car may not ever start. After the motor cools to a point it will start up, do you have to pump the gas pedel several times for it to start? We need this info for later referance. Once the motor starts does the choke blade come all the way open right away? We need to know how far it opens right after the cold motor starts. 50 degrees is not really cold and about the worst temprature to have to set up a choke for. After the motor starts and warms up to opperating temprature, you need to check and adjust the engine timing and idle setting to the proper specs. Once the timing and idle settings are correct, shut off the motor. It should restart instantly by just turning the key, do not touch the gas pedel. If it restarts instantly, run it a minute or two and shut it off again. DO NOT step on the gas pedel or open the carb throdle baldes. With the motor just shut off, look down the carb and look for gas dripping/vapor coming from the carb. Have either of those thing happening? Often, as the weather gets colder, many people automaticly pump the gas pedle several times before they try to start a car. If the motor is warm, this will very often flood the motor and it will not start. Seems like they pump the gas more if the motor is turning over slow. It must be a natural reaction, I have even cought myself doing it sometimes, and I know better. You need to pay attension that you are not the cause of your problem. Now, go do your homework and get back to us with your completed assignments. Gene
Go out to garage on a cold morning and set the choke THEN..... Loosen the three set screws that hold the choke housing-with one hand on the throttle linkage ,hold it open a tad,and rotate the plastic choke housing till the flap is barely shut. tighten the screws and start it and warm it up completely. Then check to see if its straight up OPEN when hot. that will be close...[SOUNDS more like a overly fast timing setting to me]........the valves are not adjustable on your ford -right? so they are Ok I suppose.....
Do you have good spark after the engine gets hot and won't start? A bad coil will give good spark when tested while cool and then break down after it gets hot. It will run ok but won't start again until it cools off.
Thanks for all the tips. Here is an update: I went back out to the vehicle after it cooled (engine core probably slightly warm and turned the key without pumping the gas. Wop Wop-VRooom. Fired right up after 1 and 1/2 spins. - So, the motor was running, but the engine was racing. Racing might not be a good choice of words. The engine was idling way to fast, but it was consistent. So, I popped the gas pedal in about half way and let back off and the motor's rpms go from VVVVVVVVV to vvvvvv - v v v v v v v (A nice smooth idle) Next I pulled the breather and just start playing with linkages and saw that the ?idle cam? was moving freely. I could turn it back and forth; it was not affecting the rpms one bit. That was yesterday. Earlier today, I went out to start the motor (completely cold) and it woudn't start. It turned 1 and 1/2 times, hit and then died. Then I turned it and it wouldn't hit a lick. Please look at this: (you can zoom in) http://www.carburetorfactory.com/images/expvw04.jpg Ok, see that pin that the #2 is referring to? Just to the left of that is what is moving freely... I think I have to bend the connecting rods in order for the thing to work properly. That is what I am calling an idle cam. Should it fast idle at startup, then you would tap the gas peddle allowing that idle cam to fall so it can idle smoothly? Does that rod at #2 run through both sides of the carb and connect to the floats, indicating that the floats are sticking? I have no clue what I am talking about. Thanks for all the help
[ QUOTE ] Just hold the accelerator to the floor when trying to start. Do not pump, just hold it down. Even hold it down for about 10-20 seconds before turing over. If it starts that way, you are getting flooded somehow. Holding down the accelerator during start allows a leaner situation. Mike [/ QUOTE ] You are onto something there. I think the linkage (idle cam?) is physically incorrect (not bent properly) therefore, when I push the gas pedal down, It is not reacting properly.
OK, the way a choke is suppose to opperate. When you depress the gas pedle 1/4" the choke blade should come closed. BTW The choke blade will come closed with the 1/4" throdle depress, but how much more or how many times you may need to "pump" the gas pedle for a motor to start is determined by each motor individualy and you have to figure out your motors starting requirements, but if you need to pump it more then once or twice I would check adjustments. The choke spring determines when and how much spring force is needed to close the choke, and at what temprature the choke is no longer needed. There is a recomended setting for this choke spring tension. When the choke comes closed the linkage lifts up the fast idle cam and the screw on the throdle linkage stop comes against the fast idle cam. This all happens at once. The throdle has to be opened at least some for the fast idle cam to lift under the throdle stop screw. BTW the fast idle cam usually has two or three steps on it, the first, or biggest will have the motor run at around 2500 RPM and usually only stays there for a few seconds (the throdle has to be moved for the fast idle cam to move) the 2nd step will run the motor at about 1500 RPM and the last step will be normal idle speed. These RPMs can be adjusted and there is a spec for them. Once the choke is fully open, the fast idle cam and its linkage should not have any pressure on them. Next: As soon as the motor is started, the choke blade has to open just a little to allow air to enter the motor. The choke blade opening is caused by a vacume choke pull off and linkage. There is a measurement for this and it tells you how to set it. Usually the choke blade is pulled open less then 1/4". If the choke pull off is opening the choke blade too much, the motor will be "cold blooded", and want to stall out everytime you step on the gas. It can cause the motor to back fire while cold. If the choke pull off does not open the choke blade enough, the motor will "load up" with gas and not want to idle. It will also cause black smoke from the exhaust, and can delude the oil with gas. Next: Once the motor starts warming up, the choke tension spring begins to loosen the tension on the choke linkage and alows the choke blade to open more until the choke blade is completely open. BTW there is also a linkage that locks the secondary throdle blades closed while the choke blade has tension on it. Once the choke blade has opened, it will have no effect on how the motor runs. Next: If the choke tension spring is improperly set: #1 The choke blade may not close at all resulting in very poor cold weather starting and poor motor performance with a cold motor. #2 The choke blade may open too quickly, resulting in a possible good start, but becoming very "cold blooded" #3 The choke blade may not open enough or close before the motor cools off enough to require a choke, resulting in poor warm motor performnce, hard start when warm, overloading the motor with fuel, poor fuel milage. So be what you have said so far, the choke sounds like it is at least working to some degree. Before you mess with it too much, you need to make sure the other stuff is right. Check your timing, set your idle speeds, make sure your fuel system is delivering fuel to the motor and make sure the carb is not dumping fuel into the motor while it is not running. You said when it was cold, it fired once but died then would not refire. If the motor fired and died, it probably has burned the fuel available. The Eddy carbs have been known to drain all the fuel in the float bowl from them while setting, sometimes as soon as 8-10 hours. That may or may not be your problem. If it starts and dies, try stepping on the gas pedle once and try starting it again. It really should run on at least the second step of the fast idle for at least 20-30 seconds. Hang in there, I have set the automatic choke on many cars before the advent of fuel injection. Once properly set, all you will ever want is a auto choke. Gene
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