anybody got any pics of using twin i beams up front? im thinking of bailing the mII **** on the 48 (ok actually moving it all over to my 64 lwb bowtie instead but thats another story) and going back to a solid front axle with her, but thinking maybe a twin long i beam design might be a lil more interesting. i know they aint easy, camber i think is the main issue from what ive researched, but somebodys gotta have done sumthin cool with em, right?
Search allard, they were sports cars that for a while ran early ford drivetrain, including splitting the front axle, it is supposed to cause some weird handeling issues
Yeah, camber issues! You can tell if you ever drove next to a Twin I Beam Ford van or pee-cup going down the road. You can see the major camber change as the suspension works.
thanks ****gy for the tip - never heard of them but Ill check them out - not totally sure Ill do this yet but its a thought anyway
well, i did finally manage to get the search ****on to be my friend and found this: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11095 and looks like ill be doing some research on Leslie Ballamy...... this wont be anything close to a quick build as its only concept stage now for the 48 which is considered my project on hold, but ill keep posting here for those that give 2 ****s on what this might end up with
Twin I beams (TIBs) overlap quite a bit while Allards simply split the axle in the middle which results in more severe camber change. A better Sports car to compare it to (if you must!) would be a Mallock like "Metalshapes" here on the HAMB has. Mallocks were very successful in Clubmans racing even against cars with much more sophisticated suspension. They were designed to use the better part of TWO axles to overlap in the center and give a better Camber curve than a simple split beam. The TIB is designed along the same lines...just not as sporty. I've had Fords with TIBs and found them to work fine in normal use. They don't bother me at all and I'd have another one without concern as a driver. If your doing any raising or lowering or using bags then your likely beyond normal use and all bets are off.
I've started a project that is based on an '81 F-100 ch***is. I'm thinking about replacing the springs with coilovers, but sticking with the original forged twin I-beams. I have a chopped '40 Ford PU cab sitting on the stock ch***is. It needs to come down another 3" from where it's at. That will happen by cutting the top 3" off of the ch***is and boxing the remainder. I'm trying to use the suspension in it's stock form and use body/ch***is modifications for all of my lowering. It'll still have decent ground clearance of around 4-5". I've looked around on the internet for other options for lowering, '81 is one of those years that there isn't much available ... Dan Stevens dba, Steelsmith
Doesn't Fat Man Fabrication do a split I beam front end kit for for front ends? Probably still suffers from the camber issue previously posted but looked good as I remember.
yea more reading on allard, and that isnt (for now) the path i want to go - I really wanna do something based on the f100 i beam design fatman does something and flaming river too, but neither are very 'traditional', and thats what has me bummed out on the mII from fatman that I did on this build to begin with. I might just end up going back to a straight axle like the truck orignaly had, but i have time on this one, so im gonna dive into TIB and see what i can come up with. my original hair brain thought was to maybe try and adapt torsion bars to a pair of beams or something and do away with coils altogether - i dont have a finished thought on anything yet - thats why was hoping for some others 'inspriation' to get the mind going - all of this a result of talking myself into using the mII stuff for my 64 truck build instead - hahaha it may turn into a 'just cuz you can do it, doesnt mean you should do it' but who knows....thanks for all input so far - keep it coming
Ranger pick up stuff is nice and small. Disc brakes and with some head scratching you could make it work with a traverse leaf and wishbones.
I've been looking at early 70's ford pickup stuff and wondering about a retrofit. they already have the dropped axle look and come with disc brakes. general consensus is it's not worth the h***le, but I think I'm going to try it on something anyway--just to see--you an pickup a whole truck for about $300 around here--and I'm still curious
yep - you guys have hit what I was looking for. Falcon, thats exactly my thinking and why i wanna give this a go I will keep this thread going as I gather info, etc - **** if you guys come up with anything else hit back here too - thanks!
I'll stir the pot a little bit. Make some food for thought. I work at a shop that does front end alignments on everything from a Honda car to a Kenworth on the same Beeline equipment. With Ford twin I-beams, we tell folks to bring the trucks in loaded the way they run most of the time. Why? Camber changed with front end al***ude changes. When Ford had the forged I-beams and kingpins, we bent the beams for correction. The later trucks have ball joints, this includes Rangers. We have to change a cam at the ball joint to adjust caster and camber. Expensive job in most cases.
I read somewhere in a rod and custom book (of the little pages) of a show truck (of course I don't remember which) being "updated" with twin I beams. All chromed out and stuff. I'll look for the book I read it in..
The pre-1980 I beams can be dropped 3" or so, and if you bend them to compensate for the angle change, a further few inches can be gained (or lost!) with shorter coils. Not my favorite front end, but I have a '66 pickup that steers pretty good. They get real spooky with wear, especially if the shocks get weak.
DON'T DO IT! Drive a ford truck with that set up for a while and you'll know why. On a solid axle the wheels camber remains equal to each other no matter what the axle does, on a twin axle setup the camber changes when the axle on that side moves. Bad design, period.
I'm thinking it would be a lot more likely to see one of those cheap to align Honda cars go out of line than it would be to see a TIB suspension or a solid axle go out of alignment. In normal use its gonna be a one shot deal I think... Around here for most "wheel alignments" on ANY vehicle they 'set the toe and let her go...' and if it needs additional work on caster/camber/thrust angle etc then you get charged extra. Real wheel alignments aren't a cheap deal, period. Its labour intensive and labour is what breaks the bank.
good info all around, and i am realizing all o the problems inherent in the original design. Im a long way off from starting this mess - so keep the thoughts coming
Personally, I don't think they are a great idea for a hot rod. They have more variables in play than a conventional axle, but not as much gain in ride or handling as other independent suspension options. If you adjust the height, you need more adjustments, etc. On the other hand, if you are using it as a truck, dragging stuff around, towing, etc., there are a lot of owners of Ford trucks that swear by them for the overall compromises that they represent in regards to ride, handling, and toughness.
Yeah, horrible design. That's why Ford used it for so many years and sold more trucks than anyone else. I've owned two trucks with twin I beam, still have my '65 with the '76 front axles. I've never had any problem with tire wear or handling due to the design. If I was putting it something else I'd just make sure that camber was correct at normal ride height. If you're going to bag it you will get some pretty major camber change so it might not be the best for that, but will be fine with springs.
I've logged plenty of miles with that set up and had no complaints with it. It was a stock F100 that I bought new, and put over 100K on it before i parted with it. I'd much rather have that than one of those whimpy mustang 2 set ups. I also had a Ranger and likewise had zero problems with it.
My f150 has the twin i beam ('94) and the truck has over 250,000 miles on it and I drive it every singel day. I was thinking about redoing the truck and dropping a C4 vette front end in it (because I had a great idea I was going to use it in my model A-then got smart, but have it laying around now) and a friend of mine whom is a very knowledgable truck technician (everything from light to semi) told me to just leave it because of how strong they are. In the past 100,000 miles I had to do one alignment on my truck, and that was because I replaced a tie rod. Laser alignment rack, checked all the other angles and all were good. I check the bushings every time I change the oil and they are still (or at least appear to be) in great shape. The truck handles damn good for a full size. On that same subject though, i don't really carry heavy loads too often and very rarely pull a trailer (maybe 5 times a year max) so it pretty much always stays at ride height. I get good tire wear and don't have the "wah-wah-wah" sound you hear on TIB mid 90's ford work vans. I would ***ume that changing load rates and ride heights (such as air bag systems) would be very unsuitable for this design, but if you threw some design work at it it could look very cool Check out Posies Aeroliner-its a TIB like you are talking about with leaf springs also serving as radius rods. http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/posies_statements/aeroliner/ -Not any real good pix of the front end but you can see it a little bit in the video. do a search online and you might find good pics-theres a build book on that car showing everything you need to see on that front end if you're interested. I have the book if you want me to scan some pics and send them to you.
I dropped the front of my 1990 F150 3" using the Belltech lowering twin I-beam axles about 3 years ago. So far no excessive tire wear and the handling is ok. Biggest thing is that as the coil springs flex (in a turn, for instance) they hit the spindle that is integral to the axle. There is no way to adjust. Same on the alignment. Very little adjustment left. Stay with what you've got. Switching over is not something I'd recommend. No one that I've found has a kit that will lower the front of these trucks more than 3". You've got many, many other choices if you stick to the original front end. Just my 2 cents here.
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