I understand exactly what you are saying. That is what you sign so no matter what somebody tells you, it comes down to the contract. My fear is I have an accident in the parking lot of the grocery store. They ask "what were you doing at the time of the loss". I don't want to flat out lie so I say I was stopping to get a gallon of milk..............denied per the Acknowledgment of Use page!!!!
Exactly, I just want to make sure, before hand that I'm on the same page as my insurance company. I don't want to get run over in the parts store parking lot only to find out later that according to my insurance policy I shouldn't have been there in the first place. That's what I was getting at with the agreement of use. Based on it and answers I've received on the phone from people at Grundy it seems pretty restrictive. Based on other posts by Becky (in other threads) and based on all the great comments from people on the board it seems like it would be perfect. Just so you guys don't think I'm and idiot (like that's gonna' happen ) Here are a couple of post that say it's ok to drive to work OCASIONALLY and a LEISURE drive to the parts store is ok. Seems to contradict the usage agreement. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3769675&postcount=81 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3785750&postcount=106 Like I said before I understand there has to be a little trust and common sense on both parts. I know you can't put every possible accident sceneario in writting. I just don't want to find out to late that I bought the wrong insurance.
Sealed Power, those are valid concerns, but each situation (and, unfortunately underwriter) is different. I'd suggest contacting an agent that represents collector car insur. cos. and ask them. Everyone else (even the Grundy marketing person) is just giving their opinion.
I didn't lie. That was exactly how it was presented and that is how I conduct my business. I try, to the best of my ability, to be fair to all of the above. And really when you look at it that way, it doesn't really matter what order you put them in. In 25 years in this business, only once did I have an issue over these rules. It was at that first job with a discussion with a supervisor over the use of a used part vs a new part on a 8 year old car with 27K on it. I felt it deserved a new part, and the supervisor wanted me to put a used one on it. I refuse (and was transfered shortly afterward ). I like to sleep at night. Other than that one time, I've never had an insurance company tell me how to do my job. The point about do***enting a file is what keeps people off your backside. If you could see my notes, you'd no why I'm rarely second guessed. I work as the eyes and ears of the insurance company. If something is not kosher, I report it. But I try to be fair about this. I've defended insureds in a few cases where the mileage is high. One guy put 27K on his Camaro convertible in a year. I discussed this with the adjuster and let them know the car was spotless, the interior flawless, etc. He made three or four long trips. He can drive year round because he lives in the Sunshine State. They agreed with me after seeing my pictures and he's still insured with the same company. As for age requirements, that will depend on the insurance company. As mentioned, most if not all require that you are 25. None will insured the car for daily use. So in Anderhart's example, the age part really doesn't matter. Standard, everyday car policies usually won't cover modified cars. There are exceptions to every rule, so check with your agent. But some companies that sell Stated Value policies may allow those under 25. They insure modified cars. And they probably have a more liberal list of driving conditions. Again, check with your agent. Now having said that, I personally haven't seen anyone insuring a collectable car as a daily driver. The point I was making on the errands and drives to work is that occasional will be fine. But occasional doesn't mean two or three times a week. It doesn't mean using it for a continuous week because the daily driver is down. Again, will they deny your claim? No. If they thought this was happening more than the occasional trip, they might cancel you at the end of the policy term. You can drive the car to more than car shows and parades. When the Daytona is done, I'm taking down Route 66. This includes the 1250 mile drive to Detroit to meet with buddies, the 350 mile trip to Chicago, the 2400 mile trip down 66, and the 3000 mile return trip to Central Florida. Yes, they will cover the complete trip. Even with a 3000 mile limit on Infinity's policy, they will still cover the car on this type of trip, regardless of mileage, as long as I tell them what I'm doing. Yes, I'll be going to grocery stores. Yes, the car will be parked outside at night while staying at the hotel. I will not be using it for work. I won't be taking it to the local grocery store. Or the auto parts store. But here in Florida, you can find a car show on any day of the week, even Mondays. I can take it on leasurely rides when the mood arises. Get out and drive your cars. But don't make it your daily driver.
My first too, the Dearborn headquarters. Sounds like alot of guys here are having "adjusters" look at their car after an accident and the adjuster is giving an "estimate" for repairs. This is NOT my experience with filing a claim with both Hagerty and Sneed, Robinson & Gerber (for my Corvette's insurance). After each accident (one with each company) I took my smashed car to the repair shop that I chose to have fix it. The shop wrote up an estimate and faxed it to my insurance company. IF an "adjuster" from said insurance company went out to check out the car while at the shop I did not see it nor did anyone dispute my repair shops estimate. Also, I don't remember getting "grilled" from either insurance company regarding where I was driving when said accidents happened. One of the accidents happened at the Grand Canyon, a long way from Detroit, yet they never once asked me what I was doing there and I've never been dropped from an insurance company for excessive miles per year.
HA! I was at the old Warren Claim Center, Ten-Kelly office, Port Huron and Mt Clemens. You make excellent points about being grilled when making a claim. They don't do this. Heck, they didn't do this with personal lines either. I look at cars at the shop and at peoples residences. I work with every shop. Very rarely have a problem with them. Of course, some shops ARE greedy. Comes with the territory.
Based on the responses here from Grundy clients, combined with the simple availability on this forum from the marketing department to answer questions, I've decided to call Grundy, because I think their policy would work better for me than what I currently have. Since we're on a forum full of people who own rare vehicles, could somebody explain to me how an insurance company can estimate or "adjust" the cost to repair a vehicle full of obsolete parts? I mean, really, some of the old cars are more plentiful than others, and for some, repro parts are being produced. Let's say you crumple a control arm on a really rare car. Odds are you could spend years looking for a replacement, does that mean the vehicle is totalled? For you guys with serious body mods, we all know there are VERY few shops nationwide that can fix the body properly, and the cost of that is phenomenal. They don't even teach sheet metal welding as part of auto body training any more, most replacement panels today are glued on. Frenched tail lights, louvered fenders, welded body seams..... how is it possible to fix these cars and make it fair to all involved? That's a ton of work! I'm actually surprised to see 8 pages of discussion here without this being touched on.
Probalby not touched on because there are so many AWESOME body guys on this site that to have to chose ONE to fix my car would be tough. All the thing you mentioned aren't rocket science and these guys do this stuff on a daily bases. If something happened to Big Olds and he needed bodywork because of an accident he would go back to the guy that originally did the work, Mike Howell AKA Earl Schieb here on the HAMB. If a guy did the work himself on his car, both Grundy and Hagerty policies state they would be willing to pay HIM to fix his own car.
I understand what you're saying. Most of the time I go to a car show I drive my daily. Most of the driving I do in the older cars are just leisure drives or joy rides. Going out to eat, parts store, friends house, girlfriends house, parents house. Not everyday, not in a winter snow storm, not in the pouring rain, just when the weather is nice mainly on the weekends, maybe a couple of times a week during the summer probably less in the winter. Seems like this should be fine based on what you're saying? It's just not reflected in the agreement of use. Which is what you're agreeing to. I didn't mean drive it to work everyday for a week if your daily driver is in the shop. I work at home so that's not really an issue. Unless I can't drive it home because home is also where I work in which case I'm screwed I just meant I've got a perfectly good car sitting here if I need to use it to run to the grocery store or get something to eat for a day or two, while my daily is in the shop that should be ok to my way of thinking. Seems silly that I should have to rent car. If it was going to be for a few weeks I could see your point.
By the way swiftster, I'm not questioning your honesty. You seem like a standup guy. I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
This is up to the appraiser. I like to think that every part is available somewhere. In fact the only part I haven't been able to find was a quarter panel on a '62 Pontiac Catalina Super Duty. The insurance company was willing to buy a body shell to use as necessary. The choice of the repair shop is up to the owner, not the insurance company. We let you cut your own throat. We negotiate as necessary with the shop on labor time. But these are not restoration policies. These are repair policies. No one is promising 'no bondo'. But we try to put the car back to the way it was. As for the control arm example, I had to put a control arm on a '67 Cutl***. I found a used one in Indiana. We paid to have it media blasted, painted, replaced the ball joint and bushings. Good as new. It wouldn't be any different if you had a '42 Hudson. I have a lot of contacts with vintage salvage yards. Pontiacs are just rust buckets . Estimates are done by flat rate, just like your standard car. Lets face it, this stuff isn't rocket science. Frenching a tail lamp doesn't take three months. Filling a seem won't either. The largest estimate I've written was $141,000. And it was on a 2005 Ford GT. The car was insured for $550K. Not to over simplify, but a car is a car is a car. They all have 4 wheels (well, usually), 4 tires, an engine, a transmission, etc. I'm certainly not trying to demean anyones car, but the same principle in writting an estimate on a car is no different that writting a motorcycle or a snowmobile. Work front to back or back to front depending on where the damage is . You repair or depending on the part, replace. If new OEM parts are available, I use those first. If not I look for used or reproduction. Occasionally, a part may need to be fabricated. Try finding parts for a Zimmer Quicksilver. But let me make this clear; It's all about dollars and cents. And sense!. And finally, to address the part made of unobtainium. It isn't the insurance company's job to necessarily find your part. Of course we are trying to supply the source of the part and substantiate the part price and where we found it. But let's say you broke a tail lamp on your Tucker '48. I may not find one. Is the car a total? Nope. I may at least get the value of that lamp (if available) and use that on the estimate. If the estimate is less than what you eventually locate a tail lamp for, supply the receipt and they'll give you the difference. Let's face it, there are a lot of parts sitting in peoples ba*****ts and garages that we appraisers don't have access to. These may not show up at a swap meet or parts shelf for a few years. But again, it doesn't mean we don't try. It took me 6 weeks to find all of the dash and heater parts for a '57 Dodge with a fuel line fire that worked it's way past the firewall. $17K in damage. But all the parts were found.
I didn't take it personally. Like I mentioned, there are a lot of guys that look at the industry as just a job. There are also a lot of people who don't read their policy BEFORE something happens and are suprised if things aren't handled the way they want them handled. Between these two issues, the industry gets a bad rap. I understand.
I agree, my old policy only allowed for Hobby use: parades, to from events, club meetings, shows. When it came time to renew I checked quotes but more important I spoke to each co. and described my use as best I could, and as honsetly as I could. Then based on coverage and price, and what is covered and what is not made my decision.
I had Hagerty first and when I called them and told them the coverage and the cost of Grundy ($200 less) they laughed and said NO WAY! Hagerty lost a customer right there. I gave them a chance to lower price but to no avail. Hagerty does have 125 mile free towing. that is better than Grundys $250 rebate. Grundy saves me $200 a year so Ill let it slide.
I had to get my policy out and read it [collector vehicle] means a private p***enger auto that 1 is maintained solely for use in exhibitions, parades, club activities, or other functions of public intrest. 2 Is not used for regular driving to work, school, errends, shopping, general transportation, business or commercial purposes, except for limited pleasure use. I think thats self explanitory this is out of my grundy policy I have had them for about 6 years without a claim and hopfully will stay that way. I was just looking for my agents phone number to add another car on my policy when I saw this post and had to add my 3 cents
What company is that? Is that in the actual policy or is that the agreement of use? Would like to know since I'm currently shopping for insurance.
I'm definitley calling Grundy and Hagerty. Leaning towards Grundy after reading this thread. I will check for prioir threads on Hagerty to compare. Either way it sounds like I should ditch State Farm...
Has anybody else in FL gotten a letter from American Collectors saying they are pulling out of Florida? Swifster, had you heard any rumors about anybody else? If one set of actuaries made the decision based on math, the math isn't going to change for another co.
The Jalopy Journal
