Laquer on Fiberglass Question

Before I here about how new paints are better ,I just want this question answered ,Laquer guys know how a black car looks painted in either nitrocelluose laquer or acrylic laquer .Now my question is how does it hold up .It will be a garaged car .Im still in the bodywork phase ,So nothing is is set in stone.Im using laquer based primers ,

 

i'm not a paint expert , but i know a guy that has red lacquer on a Wescott body that has been on it since about 1985...and it looks as good today as it did the day he sprayed it. he has done a few touch ups that would be expected with a car has over 50K miles on it

he keeps it in a heated and air conditioned garage

 

The key is garaged. There are thousands of cars in museums that are painted with lacquer and it holds up fine. Put it in the sun and Nitrocellulose goes away fast and requires constant care. Acrylic lacquer is some better if not too thick. Both love wax. I still like Acrylic lacquer, and it more user freindly for hoobyists.
Fiberglass needs care with substrates.

 

you dont need to use lac based primers there are others that work well . i say spray the lac. and enjoy the shine

 

Thanks ,I usually do Enamel jobs ,But there too hard to touch up . Im just a little worried about expansion and contraction of fiberglass .The basecoat clearcoats are a little easier to blend ,Nothing like Laquer .In the summer I have to make a decision

 

I have been using lacquer paints since 1959 and although I still think there is not a finer looking paint job when done to perfection, especially black, I personally believe its durability is limited at best. The best and most duable Lacquer jobs I ever did were done using dry sanding and no water at all during the primer stages. Much more work but it seem to eliminate a lot of the moisture problems. To me most lacquer paint seems brittle and not very resistant to chips and scratches. Oh yeah, not all Black is the same color. Just my opinions but hope it helps

 

Thanks Im aware of the Black situation some have a blue tint others a Brown ,Im looking for Gloss Black ,Black tint . Another reason Im considering this is dust .Enamels take forever to dry and as soon as Im done spraying ,I open the door and leave .I come back and car is dusty ,Not much ,Then I cut and buff entire car ,This way I can rub it out faster and less dust .

 

Why bother putting it in a garage? It`s not even a real car, it`s just a kit car, drive it every day. I would forget the lacqure primer, and use a 2-part, it doesn`t shrink and the paint will stick to it.

 

Im glad your not my real dad .Its no kit car .Some guy at hershey is molding bodies No dash .,1500 .00
Real steel 32 frame ,Real 36 rods rear and 29 front suspension . 40 Ford wheel . Im using original parts except for body ,Which I sold 1 408 small block to purchase ,I was upgrading my 327 to a 408 In my sprint 71 ,When I had an idea to build a streetrod .I built my own reverse master cylinder and shifter .Now as for the 60's and 70's cars Im not going back .And by the way I have a real steel 32 truck also .On a 32 frame chopped 4 inches .Do me a favor and Go build something ,

 

my dad and i are debating the whole laquer thing also, we have a '64 corvette that needs redone. i am leaning toward bc/cc for durabilty and longevity he wants the laquer look of original. we are both sold on hardened or catalyzed undercoats which will help minimize the shrinkage under either top coat. the only concern i would have in your case is if the body is properly cured (how long has it been since final gelcoat and has it been subjected to temperature differential). good luck and let us know what works for you.

 

oh foot!

 

Ive heard you cant put laquer over the new primers .I don't know how true that is .

 

I believe at one time Nason Black was the blackest of blacks ansd I worked for a guy who always wanted to use RM #141 mixing base.As Far as the gloss I believe that is related to the amount of buffing which requires exactly the right amount of paint(coats). As mentioned too much buildup is not good. In my mind factory applied Lacquer never looked that good or even close to what Hot Rodders were satified with.

 

I usually do boats and use Polyurethane made by Dupont Imron® Industrial 333 series 2 part HG. Can be sprayed or roll/tip with excellent results. Hard as nails. Easy touchup work too, but usually just requires a wet sand and buff.

 

Thankspaul weldit ,I keep jumping back and forth with Enamel or laquer .I use Centari 99 A ,Enamel O n my last 2 cars .Beautiful color , That's the color for the frame .Imron is my 3 rd choice ,

 

No doubt Laquer is the prettiest for sure. But for longevity I use a solid black from PPG its DCC9300 black. It's single stage and buffs out like glass. If you want pure black this is it and no Clear coat. I have found Clear may make it look a little wetter but not as deep and not as black. And nothing shines like a black job with no ripples. Also it spots back in beautifully.


Tim

 

I personally stay away from Imron because of the early day versions being Deadly. This may not be true now days but the early stuff required air over respirators and breathing devices. I am not sure about Nitrocellulose but acrylics should work great over 2 part primers as long as you dont use to fast of a thinner. Also many thin coats as opposed to fewer thicker coats.

 

not many if any of the new tech sheets even mention lacquer other than saying do not use "over" oem lacquer topcoat (why they say over in the recoat section i'll never know). i have old tech sheets and will look tomorrow for the new numbers of primer and surfacers that can be used under lacquer. i do know single stage urethane looks way better than bc/cc as far as the "hard" look.

 

X 2. Truth.

 

Tim, I agree PPG single stage is great and far less primer surface preparation and uncompairable durability and repair ease

 

I think the issue here is that even though the 2 part primers will bond to factory lacquer finishes but the factory lacquer primer/finishes will not bond to the base metal as well. Better known as eventual "adhesion Loss" LOL

 

Did any body ever use Kondor by PPG?

 

I don't know what it's like now, but when it first came out it was higher build than other lacquer primers but more prone to holding solvents in if you applied too many coats too fast and there was a lot of shrinkage issues after painting.

I did a lot of Corvettes with lacquer back in the 70's. For primer, we had the best luck using a polyester primer on the fiberglass, like Evercoat's Featherfill, Morton's Eliminator and a few other hi build polyester based primers. These were more compatible with the fiberglass as far as expansion and contraction and also had excellent adhesion. It's kind of like using gel coat. We did use a lacquer sealer between polyester primer and paint as reccommended by the manufacturer. Dupont Velva seal and PPG sealer 70 (1970) were a couple I remember.


Now for everyone that has an old lacquer job that was taken care of and still looks good after 30 years, that is great, but the old lacquer had my favorite paint addative--LEAD-- to keep it durable. I doubt that new formulas contain lead and I would question whether or not they will hold up the same as the old lacquer paint. I guess you could use some new lacquer and then post pictures in about 30 years, but nevertheless there is a difference in the old lacquer and the new lacquer products. There has been some nice lacquer jobs posted on here so it is still something that will give you a good finish. I still remember all the work associated with a lacquer job.

I haven't used lacquer for over 30 years, but back then there were 3 major brands available in my area--Dupont, RM (Rinshed Mason), Ditzler (PPG). There were some other lacquer lines in the USA. Dupont and RM seemed more brittle after they dried than the PPG. If we were spot repairing a new (back then) car, the general rule for color matching was that Dupont and RM usually matched the factory color better on GM vehicles and PPG matched better on Ford, Chrysler and AMC. This did not apply 100%.

 

Couple more things to consider...Vette's had been done in lacquer since their intorduction in '53.
Not sure about today's lacquer chemistry, but in the old days, it held up "ok", not as chemical and abrasion resistant as today's stuff, but it held up, with love and care!
I did a full custom 53 Merc back in the 80's with black nitro lacquer, as the owner insisted on it. I just scalloped the car a couple years ago and it was still holding up well, though the paint was getting brittle, and starting to crack in a few spots.
This car I did with the House of Kolor Epoxy primer, and the black lacquer on top, No problems with adhesion at all.

 

WOW who pissed in Dads Geritol !! Ask anyone with an early vette, laquer lasts great on fiberglass as long as you try to limit the amount of heat/cold as it has a tendency to craze and crack under these conditions. If you keep the black car out of intense heat or cold it will continue to hold up well and shine like HELL. I say ---Go for it!!

 

I painted my 34 in single stage just to get as close to the lacquer look as I could. I do miss the simplicity of the old lacquer days, I still think I may use lacquer on the wife's A. What primers do you use that are compatable with lacquer now days?

 

years ago i painted many glass cars with lacquer. keep in mind with glass, and lacquer , you are combiining the two weakest systems for a car body.

still though ,i find little difference in glass or steel as far as paint durability, though the glass is more likely to move around and cause paint issues. we refer to glass bodies as glaciers as they are always moviing.

the modern glass bodies (the good ones) are much better than the old vettes were, so i think with good care you can get away with a lacquer job on your car. still , i agree with the guys reccomending dcc9300, it will hold a finish longer than the lacquer will, and wont bring its own problems to the job.

also any of the modern primers i've used will work with laquer as well.


skull

 

Someone called my 29 a "kit car" once, and my response was "if this is a kit car I forgot to get the directions". I've built several hot rods over the last 35 years and the new fiberglass bodies that are on the market are far from "kits". I built the frame and all the crossmembers, built my own hood out of aluminum etc. etc. So any anyone calling these kits just does not get it. I agree with you to tell him to "go build something". Anything!!

 

I had a 65 Vette with the original white lacquer paint I bought in 69 and the rear deck was just starting to get crow feet cracks.

 

checked the old tech sheets and most if not all of the undercoats i use today under bc/cc will go under acrylic lacquer.