Waterjet cut diamonds in my I-beam axle saturday!

lol
after every bump
good luck

 

^^^......I changed the title for you......^^^

I don't want to be rude, but sometimes I can't help it. The top of your cutouts are too high, compromising the beam, and I think you already may of heard about the increased risk of cracking due to the shape you chose.

I'm not an engineer either, and this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't run that axle.

 

ever wonder why airplanes have rounded corners on the windows? same principle square edges = stress cracks. to those that say run it if this axle was going on a little shitbox ricer what would you say? imagine you or your buddies kid crippled for life cause someone attempting to be cool caused them to be a cripple or maimed for life. it just isnt worth it . hang it on the wall call it art sell it to some chainer for big bucks and buy a good one

 

It would probably be a lot easyer to calculate what size round hole that diamond shaped hole would be equivalent to.

And as far as the Factor 6 or Factor 15 safety that were mentioned...

Thats just guessing, right?

If you do not know ( or can calculate ) by how much you reduce that number, then that original number is worthless, IMO...

 

All I'm stating by the safety factor is that it was a general guideline to follow when we were building our cars is that whatever minimum forces caused failure, you would multiply by number x to find a suitable level of strength. For example, we could calculate raw numbers of stresses on suspension components by factoring in G force, vehicle weight, speed, etc, and coming up with a level of force exerted on mounting bolts and components. Then we would test those components to find out where they stack up. In an easier example, if a bearing needed to be good for 50,0000 rotations, we would not use one unless rated for 300K or better

I have no idea what the numbers are as far as the strength of one of these axles

 

Thats right.

We dont know what number Henry used.

Do we even know if this is an original used or aftermarket axle?

Cast or forged?


That kind of information would mean more to me than some unverifiable number...

 

DRIFTER...man i'am not going to rain on your parade. but i would keep an eye open! you know? it may be nothing or a very BIG something...POP.

 

Wow, a lot of arm chair metallurgist/engineers on here.

Hot rodding wouldn't even be around if people didn't try new things and take at least a little bit of chance every once in a while. Just put it on, take it easy for a while, keep and eye on it and see what happens. Hot rodding stuff breaks all the time. Just be reasonably careful and prudent and if you catch it cracking, replace it. If you plan on pounding the crap out of it, you probably shouldn't be drilling any kind of holes in it in the first place.

 

doesnt mean they are wrong though.

 

I agree, but only way to really know it to try it out or test it properly in controlled settings with very complicated equipment or software. I say put it on the road and test it carefully with caution and common sense the traditional way.

 

WTF!!!

 

Doesn't mean they are right. I'm an Engineer in the OEM automotive market. Safety factor here on fatigue components... 3X

While surely not optimal, there is a radius, be it only .012.

I love the, "let's jump on a guy that actually is doing something instead of just typing about it attitude." This seems to be happening more and more.

I would think they would be OK as long as he isn't running through cones or Detroit streets...

How many of you guys tested your chassis with measurable attributes after cutting the roof off and welding them back on. NONE!

I would have been a little more comfortable with an 1/8" radius.. leaves more material.

Mike

 

yep...

 

Just my personal opinion, not based on science or numbers, just what I consider to be common sense.

Plenty of the responces in this thread say it will be fine if hes not driving on rough roads, or to watch and be careful in case it cracks.

It wont be the big bumps that will kill the axle, it will be the millions of high frequency vibrations that come from the regular everyday iregularities in the road. Harmonics can be a mofo. Big bumps wont help the situation, but the small ones will do more damage.

Also how do you guarantee that you will never end up on a rough section of road?

As for watching it for cracks, it may a long time before it cracks, however when it does crack failure wont be far behind. The fact the sides of the diamond have a shallower angle will focus the stress to the top and bottom points, not the shallow angled sides. This means it will crack through the top and bottom webs and not between the diamonds. A failure through the top or bottom webs will leave you with little or no warning before you are tumbling ass over tea kettle.

Remember folks this is the steering axle, failure would be devastating. Why take the chance?

Again just my thoughts, I could be wrong, but I would prefer to never find out.

 

Skull shaped cut outs could have avoided the stress riser problem and got a double paged spread in Ol Skool Rodz.

 

A roof is far from an integral suspension part. In fact the whole body has very little to do with chassis rigidity. If you cut your roof, your body flops inward/outward not your chassis, thats why you brace the body so when you weld it back on along with the inner supports it retains its integrity and alignment. A body mod won't cause you to lose control of your car if it breaks but a suspension mod will. Thats why aftermarket companies make a killing selling IFS kits, b/c home builders wouldn't risk their own stuff breaking.

 

Oh contrar mon frar...
Not sure if I spelled that right. But, body rigidity has alot to do with how stable a car will be. Especially on one our old rides... ever look at the frame on a convertible galaxie, or any other car probably... They have an extra X frame added for just that reason...

Mike

 

We have a friend whose brother is one of the most successful and unrespected ambulance chassers in the nation.....He loves crap like this ...It has made him a BILLIONAIRE....

 

Ok guys, I didn't start this thread so everyone can get into a pissing match with each other. All I'm trying to do is something different and out of the box designs, tired of seeing the same old shit done on every car. The 30' Chrysler coupe I'm building is going to be totally different then anyone has seen. And some of you guys that haven't even seen my project and are already saying it belongs in Ol' Skool Rodz because of the axle can go fuck yourself! Ratrod is not in my vocabulary. I build "traditional" looking cars with vintage parts when I can find them. I am a welder/metal fabricator by trade and make parts when I can. I do know a little about metal properties and do not claim to be an engineer! However, I do have a friend who is a engineer and a car guy I'm going to see what he says. I can take one of my old I-beam axles I cant use and cut it out like this one and put it to the stress of a 500 ton press break that I know someone has and see what it does under pressure. I understand what you guys are saying with it possibly cracking at the points, these are small diamonds and they are on the "flat" side of the center web, they do not go into the corners of the main top and bottom I-beam. This is a quality forged steel axle. Until I test it or someone has hard proof that this will fail I still plan on using it, BUT only if it checks out under stress testing. It will be a year or so until this car is finished so I do have time to study this issue more. I have been lurking on the HAMB for over 12 years now, just signed up in Nov. and I have seen some crazy looking shit on here that people have tried doing like cutting and welding pitman arms together, steering components, draglinks and even cutting an I-beam axle apart and shortening it and welding them back together! There was even an article in Hot Rod a few years back where they were building a gasser and they took an I-beam axle from a ford pickup cut it in the middle and welded it back together! That was published in a national magazine with millions of people reading it! And some of you guys think my axle is scary? WOW!

 

Thanks to all who have posted. It's clear to me now that an I-beam axle is a nightmare to be avoided at all costs. The diiamond shape of the cutouts are the equivalent of cracks running across the web of the I. They are larger and much more visible than the usual crack but are nonetheless cracks. Unless of course diamonds are inherently worse than cracks and I'm hoping they're not. So this relatively new-looking axle is moments from total failure but the cracked webs on the 75-year old axles on many hot rods are perfectly safe -- or are moments from total failure and all of them should be removed, x-rayed, magnafluxed and stress tested. I, for one, will pull off the road the next time a hot rod comes near. Actually, there's little chance of seeing one -- I stay home now, afraid of everything I've been told to be afraid of (terrorists, global warming, food, water gays, liberals, conservatives, government, business and necrotizing bacteria). Now I have to update my list.

 

Case in point… I bought a car for the motor… so I thought I would have some fun. After beating with a sledgehammer in the back parking lot in front of the security guards, I drove to my friends garage where we proceeded to cut the roof off. Let me tell you… it was ugly… It wasn’t even a unibody…

 

The diamond shaped holes go against all engineering principles. Arguing whether it is safe or not is futile. No-one knows the answer.
No holes is safest
Round holes safe enough, based on common practice.
Diamond holes least safe.
I wouldn't run it.
I would advise drifter not to run it.
If it were mine and I wanted to run it I'd redrill the holes round, making sure no part of the diamond is left.
The technology is great though, and an excellent demonstration of it's capabilities.
But maybe an I-beam is not the best place to be inventive.
Mart.
Edit: written before seeing drifter's note just above...^^^

 

I wish Z'd frames had this much scrutiny.....

 

True my friend however you are now talking about 50's 60's cars which are much much heavier. That added x frame and body bracing is so to support the body from folding, the frame on it's own however is perfectly fine.

An i beam axle is for a 20's, 30's, and 40's cars (with some exceptions) which are much lighter and that part of the suspension has little to do with body rigidity.

 

Untill someone cuts Maltise Crosses in one...

Form follows function.

Lightning holes are to lighten the piece without weakening it too much.

If you choose a shape that weakens it more, you can lighten it less...


I have no opinion on the strength of this axle.
Because I dont know....

 

High Plains Drifter

I applaud your efforts i really do, it's never easy to be the first to do something, i'm sure the first guy to drill an axle got flack for it. But without someone trying it we would never know what would happen with it. I think this has turned into a really important debate (all stupid replies aside) as to the safety aspects and limits of hot rods and the modifications that can be safely performed. The arguments will never end, just like using a tube axle with hairpins, a lot of guys say no a lot say yes... only the test of time will tell.

 

They do especially when poorly done

 

Square roll bar or round roll bar? Same reason planes and boats use round windows in the load bearing areas and even those can crack from the stress, harmonics ect..I think we didn't see the diamond shape lighting holes 50 years ago is because it was a bad idea back then as well.

 

dude, drive that shit. lets see if 13 is a lucky number.

 

its wall art now. period.