ANYONE SWAP A FORD 312 WITH a LINCOLN 430?

Has anyone ever swapped a ford 312 with a Lincoln 430?

Anyone know what all would be involved? I assume motor mounts, differrent tranny maybe?

 

I helped do this when I was 16 years old ,no one involved had any real welding skills .The car was crazy fast for the day ,the motor was way to heavy for springs and the brakes .He crashed it into the side of a garbarage truck.

 

Someone here must know something!

 

Anyone?

 

As Hilo Hotrodder said the 430's are hell for heavy. Or at least they seemed so. Mom had one in a 58 Mercury Colony Park wagon that would walk and talk but didn't want to pass many gas stations. I don't think that there is much in the way of speed or dress up goodies for them and some of the Lincoln engines had a strange front cover that wouldn't look good in a rod and might not fit too well.

 

I did a 53 Merc. back in 1960, had to remove the front end to get it in and piece and cut to reinstall the fenders. Like some one said it was too heavy for the stock suspension and was scary fast in the 53 body. I don't remember the details on how it was installed but we had a whole wrecking yard to scrounge parts from so I know we didn't spend a lot of money.
Latter in years I put a 429 in a 72 Ford pickup and we used 352 motor mounts and the stock transmission in the truck, as a matter of fact we used the stock trans. in both builds.

 

So the 430 made good power? I know it's heavy, but I can deal with that. I just wondered how tough the swap would be?

 

Why not look at a 368 Lincoln Y Block? At first glance it would look stock, but easily blow away most comers

 

I am just curious why you want to replace a very much sought after 312 Y block for a 430 that weights a ton ? There are so many things you can do to the 312 to get many more HP out of it over the 430 plus all the work to get that damn big thing in there !
If you want something with more HP go with a 302 or a FE . Anything will be better than the 430 .

RetroJim

 

Uh, what's the car you're performing the swap on?

 

Thinking of putting it in my '56 Montclair.

And before you point out the collector aspects, remember- it's a hotrod.

And I like things a little different!

 

Depending on a number of things, the motor mounts may be fairly simple. Without knowing any more about the vehicle & the vintage of the engines, it's tough to say.

The bellhousing patterns don't match at all. Again, depending on the year of the 430, and its bell, if it has one, it may be somewhat simple, or complex.

 

Um, I beg to differ. Yes the 430 is heavy( about 750lbs I think), but also has about 100 more ponies stock. It takes a lot to overcome just that 100hp

It a custom/hotrod! I don't know if I'll go with the 430, but I like the idea.

As for a 302? Not happening! It will either be the 312 or 430. The 430 offers the 'dare to be different' factor, as well as hp. But I don't think there is anything wrong with running the y-block.

 

FWIW, my buddy comes to my parents shop a few years ago with a huge smile and a massive chunk of iron in the back of his truck that resembles some kind of big block.

He doesn't know what it is, neither do I, and after some research we discover it's a LINCOLN 430 and a tranny to boot.

We are stoked about getting this thing in his hot rod pick up. Ecstatic would be the better word choice.

This changes quickly.

It bends my old cherry picker getting situated between the frame rails of a stock 46 chevy, and we discover that the suspension is damn near bottomed out shortly after mock up. No good. Are we going to box the rails and get new springs? Not for this fucking abortion.

To make it worse we can't even find an intake manifold for the thing and after six months of looking (Hopefully the HAMB Classifieds will be helpful for you at this point in time) we decide to scrap the bitch and go with an SBF.

We couldn't give the motor away afterwards either.

Make sure you are truly dedicated to this swap before going balls deep. Six months waiting for an intake for a HEMI is one thing, the idea of waiting that long for a LINCOLN motor didn't really have the same kind of dedicated patience.

Y Block sounds like the logical choice. My .02

 

Got trans? The 430 MEL motor has a somewhat in-between bell housing pattern. It is FE 'ish, but with some differences. Adapters and MEL speed parts are rare and pricey, but still out there, somewhere.

 

True, but there's more to the story. There are actually three different bell patterns for the MEL engines; you're thinking of #2. A thread that might help somebody out:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180238

There's a lot of details that can make this particular swap either relatively easy, or an absolute bitch...but again, without knowing the year of the 430, it's tough to go much further.

 

Hi 38FLATTIE! Lots of good info on the "MEL engine forum"...Theo and the rest of 'em can help you. I'm with ya. They are a little heavy, and speed parts are a little difficult to find, but you're right...they're different, interesting, and can rotate the earth. Do a search here on the H.A.M.B., and you'll see that a few are into them. GasserKid is puttin' one in a roadster. unclescooby knows 'em, and Beep (Brian) really knows 'em! I'm planning on putting one in my '29 roadster. I have an old Edelbrock 6X2 intake for mine. If you want to see something really interesting about the 430, take a look at Brian's videos on youtube...search "Gizzle Hopper Cacklefest"...awesome. He runs a gas/nitro fed blown 430 in an old-style dragster!!! I do know that there are differences between the '58/'59/'60 and the later engines. The later ones are harder to adapt transmissions. There are other differences as well. Again, check out the MEL engine forum for info. - Rick

 

Hey Flattie,
Why don't you check out this Y-Block site? This guy can make some sweet power out of a 312. I got a lot of interesting pieces for a 312 and can give you a little guidance also.

 

Forgot the site. Sorry

http://www.ford-y-block.com/

 

Those are some good sits/threads guys! Thanks.

I still think it would be a pretty cool swap. Hi-po cam, little head work, 6x2 intake....

 

I've been hearing about how heavy FoMoCo engines are for as long as I can remember. The "hot rod ragazines" were famous for consistently spewing that bable. They were all over the FE Fords back in the day calling them overly heavyweight engines and whatnot. The only engine they really promoted was the sbc and that was because there were tons of aftermarket dollars tied to those things. If one takes a close look at FoMoCo engines compared to the typical brand x y or z engine you would see that there is very little unnecessary material used in their construction. In fact Ford pioneered "thinwall" casting technology. Thinwall almost to a fault IMO, since on some engine the cyl walls have limited overbore capability. How can it be called out both ways. Ford engines are either overweight pigs or they are carefully designed to achieve max strength with min weight. You can't have so called thinwall engines outweighing the competition. Compare any Hemi Olds or Caddy etc. Especially the cast on bellhousing versions! Call them heavyweights why don't ya. Oh no those engines are magic, there is iron everywhere but somehow they are perfect "hotrod" engines. I'll concede two points 1) the ball stud sbc valvetrain is probably the cheapest and lightest in it's class, and 2) Ford has had an affinity for making overly complex front cover accessory systems over the years. Those two points are important I know.

What I'm getting at here is this. The Lincoln 430 is a very potent engine in stock form. It does not need different heads, pistons or even camshaft to hurl you down the highway at breakneck speeds. Uncork it and put a good carb on top and go. This is a top of the line thorobred engine that does not need you to comb the aftermarket for replacement parts. It is good as it stands. It is probably the only engine used in an American car during the 1950's that could easily be built to exceed 500 cubic inches. True in a 2500 lb roadster a smaller engine might do better but put a 430 in anything from 1935 up and you'll have to build a pretty strong small block to keep up.

Whatever you do put a good gearbox behind it and let it rip. I have a very close friend that street raced a `58 Edsel with the 410" Mel in the early `60's. It was converted to floor shift since it had a 3spd OD trans. Of course the exhaust was uncorked. I don't remember the gearing. The engine was pretty much stock, just a bigger 4 barrel on the stock manifold. Slapper bars and good rear tires. I realize this is not a first hand account since I was just a babe at the time but I believe ole Jack. There was very little that could touch him at the time according to him. The hot new`57 Chevy's were sent home packing for instance. The one car that could whip up the 410 Edsel was a fuel injected Vette and even then it was close. I used to listen to ole Jack tell me these stories all the time. He was one of the senior mechanics at our Ford dealership. Of course seeing is believing. Well a few years ago Jacks stories became even more believable to me. It seems that a `58 Merc with the 430 engine (same basic body and engine as Jack's Edsel) showed up at the "stock appearing" drags. I think they are called F.A.S.T. drags. The Merc proceeded to whoop up on some pretty stout `60's muscle cars including a 396 Chevelle if memory serves me correctly. The Merc so impressed the folks there that some muscle car mag did a write up on the car. Here is the care....

I say go for the 430 swap in the`56 and put the 312 in a `40 Ford or something.

 

If you cruised the Portland area in the late '60s, early '70s sooner or later you'd come across a dark blue, '32 three window coupe. Highboy (might have had bobbed fenders), white top insert, chrome wheels, shiny chrome headers, but what really set it apart was a 430 Lincoln motor sporting eight carburetors. Easily one of the most radical cars to be found cruising down Broadway, it could be two blocks ahead and you would hear it, even above the radio. I aways envied the guy that drove it.

 

Hey 38flattie,,don't listen to any of those a--holes who say right off and without even thinking, that a 430 is "too heavy", or "to expensive" or "to anything" but cool. I am still running a 430 and it screams power. Yes, it's heavy, but so is a hemi. Way back when, I put a mild 430 into a 56 Ford (easy swap) and it never, I say agian, it never got outrun by a chevy. That thing honked man and was way too much fun. If you use an early (58, 59 or 60) block, the FE bell housing, clutch, etc will swap right on. The c-6 tranny from an FE will bolt on to the early 430's also. For more information on these engines e-mail me at BPerrenot@hotmail.com. I will be happy to help you out. As to speed parts, there are some out there. So, bottom line,,,go for it.

 

He used to hang out at the Tic Toc at Sandy and Burnside--remember it well. He also raced at the night drags and Firestone.

 

I guess I forgot to say "Go for it". Springs are cheap, just get some stiffer ones.

 

These Lincoln mills sound like the shit! Everyone talks about how heavy they are- my Flatcad weighs 900 lbs! And that's 130hp stock!

 

I am building a 430 lincoln for my 1965 Chris Craft supersport. It's an engine I was not previously familiar with, but through people like Brian Perrenot, and the MEL engine forum... along with some serious digging, I have found out a lot. Keep in mind the 430 was the first engine to hit 400 hp in a north american production engine. For the most part, it's fairly easy to get 400 horse out of them, but the torque figures are the monster. Even in it's later incarnations when the 430 was 'detuned' to about 300 horse, it still put out over 400 ft lbs of torque. When it was 400 horse, it was 500 ft lbs.....and that is at 4000 rpm. That is very streetable torque, and it was ideal for a boat too The 430 Lincoln was stated to be 740 pounds, which is fairly heavy, but if you look at the bottom end, it would be pretty hard to break too..



You can find a tri power intake here and there, Edelbrock had the L300, and there was the original Mercury super marauder 3x2 as well. I have one of the FoMoCo intakes, and I am going to have Joe Bunetic build a set of mechanical marine Holley 2300's for it. There was also a 6X2 Edelbrock, and a company in Illinois is making an 8X2. There are repro's of the Marauder aluminum valve cover available too. Cams are harder to find. I have a reverse grind so it would be strictly custom for me.



One very important note: In order for this engine to perform properly, you need the stepped pistons... Look on the MEL engine forum for more explanation, but the basics are this: This is one of the last engines with the combustion chamber in cylinder, rather than in the head. The combustion chamber is wedgeshaped, since it is an offset deck by 10 degrees. Pistons can be made, but the generic flatties that are offered with most rebuild kits will not give you the power this engine can produce. I am having Wiseco make me a custom set of forged pistons that will be about 10 to one or so. 150 bucks a slug. That said, this is a very strong engine, and very old school cool.

 

I just weighed the 430 out of my '64 Lincoln. 724 lbs. That includes a full crankcase of oil, coolant in the block, alternator, power steering pump and reservoir (mostly drained), stock cast iron 4 bbl intake manifold and Carter AFB, exhaust manifolds, fuel pump, motor mounts, and flexplate (aka flywheel). No starter or A/C compressor. Basically a complete engine as removed from the car.

The block has a '62 casting number.

I've seen a lot of different MEL 430 weights posted around, but they always seem vague. So now I know for sure.

- John

 

go for it Buddy!

MEL is definitely on my list of want to do's for someday. I keep hoping I'll stumble across an early block, as I know where a 6-71 intake is.

 

Just me, but personally I'd get a Lincoln 368 Y-block. Should fit your stock mounts, has the cool speed parts, or at least some, and would also be quick. Just a thought.