hey guys, im looking for a motor for my car. and i found a 460 with trans for 300 bux on ebay. it has 82000 and its a runner. can i simply swap all the serpetine belts and pulleys to older style pulleys and can i swap the injected manifold to a carb? seems like a good deal, but i want to know what im getting into. -ryan
I don't remember exactly the specifics, but, I think that there is a problem, I remember, with manifold compatability. Not sure on the balancer, pretty sure the water pump is gonna be reverse rotation, like the later little Ford's, and the later crank has external balance weight, on the spacer, not so on the early ones. My "Late model" 460 knowledge is sp****...I'm sure you will get some real answers soon enough... Good luck...We are running an early 460 in our truck.
The fuel injected heads have big round ports, instead of ovals as used on older engines. If you fill the bottom of the runner on a Cobra Jet intake, it is pretty close. Edit: found some pictures. The fuelie heads can be ported to match some aftermarket intakes with CJ ports. If you are planning on port work anyway, the fuelie heads are one of the better stock heads to start with.
HEY MAN,if you put a 460 in your car,you"ll be broke just keeping gas in it.find you a 289,302 ,plenty of power,not bad on gas and easy to get parts.
Don't know too much, but believe the carbed models are internally balanced and the later are externally balanced. Can't interchange balancer or flywheel/flex plate. But wouldn't swear to it.
my soon to be brother in law has a 302 that only needs head gaskets. he will give it to me for free. i want to put a motor in my 57 lincoln. its a huge car, so im kinda worried about putting a 302 in it.
The balance weight is on the crank spacer, and not the balancer itself. The newer motor will have the weight attached to the spacer. If you just keep that spacer, you will be fine, but I don't know how belt/pulleys are going to line up.
Sorry I can't be more help, but I'm more of a chevy guy. I be if you said you where putting a chevy in your Lincoln all those ford fellows would speak up
About a year ago I was looking for a fuel injected 460 for a project I was working on. As far as I know it was available only in F350s and large vans. They have gobs of torque and horsepower and with the fuel injection will give you 18 mpg in a light car. High performance cams are out there for this engine. Why not run it with fuel injection?
The 460 is a great choice. In fact the later "fuelie" heads have a lot in common with the Robert Yates nascar heads. Modern combustion chamber design. Raised exhaust ports with a waaay better short side radius. Intake ports are smaller high velocity designs. There is an adapter available to mount a 4v carb on the lower intake manifold. Very inexpensive. The V- belt system should work fine so long as you use a standard rotation water pump. The balance issue is really a non- issue. Pre 1979 460's were internal balance. Engines produced from `79 up used a small counterweight behind the harmonic balancer. It is a separate piece and should be retained. Use a Duraspark distributer and ignition system or a Mallory, MSD, etc. Carb adapter info here: http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_cs-460efi.html pic.
Henry Floored is on the money. If you need more answers, try the guys over on the 460.com site and they can fill you in on interchange real quick. That big Linc needs a 460....of course if you want to be different, there is always the old MEL engines in 410/430/462 sizes
Hey Henry...not to get to off the point, but, how do you think a set of ported "fuelie" heads would compare to a set of ported D0VE heads? In a high RPM race engine? Can they be worked into a better choice, for the $$$, than the fabled early heads? Just wondering, because we are using a VERY m***aged/opened up set of D0ve's, and the next step, unfortunately, for us, seems like BIG dollars on heads... I KNOW our exhaust port is not our friend....
i appreciate your wisdom henry. and 300 bux i think ill take it. ill buy that adapter and find an auto trans... this one comes with a 5 manual. any idea about the pulleys?
You will need to either use the stock fuelie exhaust manifolds, or make your own header flanges if you want headers, the bolt pattern is different.
If there's nothing wrong with that ZF 460 5speed ****** and those miles on it, it could be worth 300-600 bucks. They are almost 2k rebuilt with a warranty. 460gas and the 6.9/7.3 diesel ZF 5speeds look similar but will not interchange. the bell pattern is close in appearance but different. There are 2 styles of ZF ****** 2 wheel drive and 4wheel drive. Ford uses the 4 wheel drive zf in the 2wheel drive f450 and e450 because those trucks have rear disc and Ford made the driveshaft parking brake adapter to bolt to a transfercase flange. people forget to check the oil in that parking brake , it is separate from the ****** and it holds very little oil...they are worth a few bones if you have one on your 460 ******. They might and I stress might bolt on to the rear of a c6 or aod 4x4 ****** and for certain on an e4od 4x4 ****** to have a driveshaft parking brake in a 2wheel drive. most all the injected 460's are speed density and are not very tunable. The last of the California 460's before the v10 was introduced got m*** airflow throttle bodies and a different computer and sensors. that harness and intake goes for over a grand used. One thing you can do for a speed density 460 is to use a 5.0 mustang computer and harness with an aftermarket big 5.0 MAF and oversized 5.0 injectors. That might or might not require a custom cam. depends on the 460 and 302ho firing orders. If it requires a firing order and cam change then there is one off the shelf to do it. another thing... the speed density injection is a constant flow of fuel and the MAF setup is true sequential multiport injection which requires a crank trigger and ford makes one to do it. I had a fuel injected 1990 f350 4x4 with the 460 4:11's/33"tires and a c6. It got 8-9mpg My buddy had a 3/4 ton van with 4:11 but overdrive and an injected 460 and 235 70r16's tires...he got 6mpg. I had a 4x4 van with a holly carburated 460 6 and 3:73 gears/ 33"tires(285-75r16). sometimes I got 12 mpg going 55 in summer with a tailwind and other times I got 7-8 towing. I am restoring my 77 f150. It was a FULL TIME 4x4 with 3.73 gears 33" 285-75r16's ... a 460 with the motorcraft spreadbore and a c6. I could get 9-11mpg empty going 65-55mph... and got 7.5-8.5 mpg towing a loaded car trailer 70 mph. all the other 460's mentioned were stock except the one in my 77 has flat-top pistons, 10.75:1 compression, a lunati voodoo cam and is running 2.5" primary exhaust off the manifolds to a flowmaster collector and a 3" tailpipe and 80 series flowmaster muffler. I had a 69 lincoln and a 69 thunderbird both with 429 thunderjets in them. 9-10 mpg. Ive had other trucks similar to the one's I've had with 460's and they got 9-13mpg running a 305,350 or 351. It didn't matter. it seems it takes a finite amount of fuel to move each unique vehicle down the road and the size of the engine only makes the difference in power not so much mileage. My 77 had a 400m 2 barrel in it and got only 8mpg in town and 5mpg on the highway with the same setup and under the same conditions that the 460 got 9-11mpg dealing with. Hope that gives you some perspective. If it's big and heavy and ****s fuel anyway the 460 will shine. If it's light and aerodynamic the 460 will be a detriment to mileage but will still make you happy everytime you punch it open. My 84 mercury marquis got only 18mpg tops with a 302 and was at that engines limits at 70. i took it to the east cost and it would downshift and lose 5-8 mph on every Pennsylvania hill. Even losing speed it burned less than half the fuel the 460 did in a truck and a 3/4 the fuel a 460 would in a car.
Torchmann...a well thought out real life comparison of related engine size Vs vehicle weight. Nothing is quite a disappointing as a underpowered heavy truck or as fun as a overpowered light car. Thanks for the post and some reality
To bad the 70 torinos that came factory with the ram air 429 scj's are all taken up. I haven't seen one in years.
wow torchman good insight...ive never actually run efi, and really dont plan too. im a carb guy. im hoping i could just boolt an old style water pump n pulleys on this thing.
i've had two 460 equipped Connies; both carbed, and both were capable of 20mpg highway regularly. damn odd, but i liked it. they're not a "pretty" engine; nothing to look at like a dressed SBF or whatever, but for torque and long life you can't beat 'em.
That was some great info, Henry Floored and Torchman! The 460 is great engine choice for the Lincoln. The car already had an MEL, so it's ready to carry another heavy engine. Also, all that torque will really make the car more easy to drive. Parts are easy to find and very reasonably priced. I recently had a built, 1970 460 in a big orange Torino that was a real rocket! It sold me on power of the 460, so I found a 4 bolt main 429 SCJ, stroked it, and put it in my 57. I say, do it!
a big engine is going to burn more fuel idling than a small engine but the rest is all gears. combustion pressure on a piston is in lbs/square inch. To get more power on the crank, you can either add more combustion or add more square inches. (Area = pi*r^2 or Area = 3.1417 times 1/2 the piston size, times 1/2 the piston size again) Take the combustion pressure in Lb/square inch times the square inches of the piston top to get the force against the crank. a large piston engine conducts more cylinder pressure onto the crank as mechanical pressure. It's the same hydraulic to manual transfer that happens in your brake cylinders by raising compression ratios, a high compression engine compounds cylinder pressure exponentially by raising the pre combustion pressure without increasing the fuel. cylinder pressure drops as a function of the relationship between combustion chamber volume and piston swept area. Pressure drop in a small combustion chamber engine happens faster than in a large combustion chamber engine (considering both these engines have the same bore&stroke) Where a turbo or blown engine makes more power and can still get good mileage is it increases the precombustion pressure by using a turbo or blower instead of by changing the compression ratio. The larger chamber in the blown engine will result in less pressure drop from piston travel so the burn pushes harder and longer. It more efficiently converts fluid pressure into mechanical pressure. going to a properly tuned bigger engine (to a point) from an overworked small engine...is actually an efficiency improvement. if the small engine can do the job easily, the bigger engine is just adding temptation the blower increases efficiency same way as increasing compression ratio plus the pressure drop trick the turbo is the most efficient piston engine configuration. it does the same thing a blower does but uses waste exhaust pressure to do the work. I'm only talking about combustion to rotation efficiency. everything has it's own problems and benefits
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