I am planning to put a 1985 700r4 overdrive behind my vintage motor in my sled. Question is " What kicks the overdrive on" .I didn't see any type wiring for a solenoid. Help. .....
there are electric kits available ..I bought mine rebuilt and the lock up was in the converter..goes into od at 42 to44 mph..no wires at all,just the detent cable..hope this helps
I have been asking theses questions all over sites and have gathered some info. First , there are several options that will run you from 60 to 120 if bought from B&M or others. Then there is the option of wiring it yourself with a kill switch (toggle) on your dash; you can also wire it hot to a brake switch that will kill the Over Drive when you slow down. I have yet to find the scematic for the 4 pinned plastic doo-dad that comes off the trans, but I am fairly sure that it is one hot wire to the rear left pin (looking at the top from the left side of the trans) that recieves the hot and then you break that hot with a manual switch or pressure brake switch. I am not sure if you have to ground off, since I imagine the block and trans are large grounds? If anyone else knows the schematic or can correct any of my info. please do. I have mine together, but haven't fired it yet. Ohh, the TV cable , is not like the 400 or 350, there is a succession of angles that must be pie wedged into the throttle , Quadrojets are easier, and once again, Holley makes kits for the converstion, but you can cut the carb plate up and make it work, which is what I did. Ohh, and unless you have a lter model Camaro shifter for the 700r4, just wait to get nailed price wise for the 4 speeds (others won't work unless you jury rig them). Pork Pork
BTW..that cable your calling a "detent cable" is not a detent cable,(post #2) its TV cable Throttle Valve ..and if it isnt adjusted right,, the first time you run that trans with it wrong you will smoke that 700r4. like porkchop said, it has to have the correct pull thruout your throttle range
I believe 1985s had that ****ty 7 vane front pump. Later ones had either a 11 or 13 vane pump. I'd at least upgrade that much.
If you're wondering about the TV (Throttle Valve) cable adjustment, this is the place to go...period. http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php I have a 200-4R, behind the engine in my Avitar, which uses the same TV system as the 700-R4. I didn't want to destroy it before I even got it out on the road, so I did a LOT of research on the TV cable install/set-up. This was by far the most informative of all the info I came up with...even I could understand it...
My 700 is run through a manual switch.The ****** shifts to 4th gear at about 50 mph. The torque converter is not locked until I pull the switch-which makes it kinda like a 5 speed.When I am at about 60 Mph and above I lock it up-if I am running slower I usually leave it unlocked.Real simple and no extra kits to wire in. As for the TV cable-start with it adjusted about as tight as a banjo string (with the carb wide open)and you will be close. The best way to set it up is with a pressure gauge-but not everybody has one.
Just because it has a 4 pin plug on trans doesn't mean you need 4 wires. Drop the pan & look. On mine- the desire was lock up in OD only. So- installed 4th gear Ps, you get ground inside the case so you only need 1 ignition wire. I didn't want to fuss with a toggle or deal w/ a vacuum switch (some will hunt in & out of lockup w/ VS) so I bought a brake light switch for a 80 Corvette. It has provisions for brakes & cruise in one switch. One set is NC, other is NO. CarQuest part number is ECC 53-54488 Works like a charm. You don't need an overpriced kit. I did mine for about $30.00 total.
The overdrive (4th gear) shifts hydraulically. You don't need electrics to do that part. You are referring to the lockup converter if you ask about activating something electrically. There are converters available for it without lockup. I have been using a stock lockup converter for years without using the lockup feature. (truck with 3.50 gears) Those warnings about overheating the trans if you don't use lock the lockup feature on the converter are only referring to those vehicles that have a huge converter slippage rate because of a ridiculously tall rear gear like the factory used for emissions vehicles. 3.08 3.00 where the converter would slip so much it generated huge amounts of heat. With my 3.50 gears, I do not have that problem. About the TV cable- do not worry too much about an EXACT adjustment. All you need is to have it adjusted where you can count the shifts. The problem comes if you can not be sure whether it shifted too soft, and let the clutches slip. The "modern" approach of trying to have soft invisible shifts is what burns the clutches. If you adjust it to where you can tell when it shifts, sort of like the older ******s, you will be ok. So forget any long procedural checklist where you are not sure you got it exactly right. If you can tell when each shift happens, without a hard hit and without a soft slip, then you have it right. I have seen different years of ******s with different wiring at the plug. So DON'T take anyone's word for which terminal is which. Take down the pan and track the wires yourself. It is easier than it looks. I like to disconnect everything, and then I only re-connect the two switches I want to use. That keeps it very simple. All the items that look like oil pressure sending units are there to tell you which gear is activated at the time. You can use certain ones to activate external controls, or NOT use them. It's up to you. There is ONE that looks different near the front, right under the front pump. That one is the solenoid that activates the lockup feature of the converter. That is the ONLY one you need to hook up to an external control if you want to be simple. Some people also hook up to the 3-4 oil pressure switch so they can wire it such that the lockup only occurs in top gear, or hook it to the 3rd And THE 4TH pressure switches so you can have lockup in 3rd and 4th. (If there is no oil pressure from either sending unit, there will be no power to activate the converter lockup- a safety feature) That is a very good idea, but it is still optional if you can remember to flip the dash switch yourself to unlock before you get down to low gear. You don't have to have it, but it is a good feature to have. When you hook those wires yourself, and mark what you have done, you will know for sure which terminals are which. Don't take a book by it's word or an expert by his word. I have seen wiring variations. It may sound complicated when you first hear about it or first look at it, but it is just about the simplest thing when you dig in. If you can wire a light switch, this will be easy. It is nothing more than a couple switches turning something off and on.
What about the 2 wire pressure activated switches? They look to be about the simplest way to go. Are they any good, reliable, PITA, or just exactly WHAT is the easiest/best/most reliable/etc. way to lock up the converter? I see 4 or 5 different type kits, anywhere from $35 on up to $180. Inquireing minds want to know...
I'm in the process of installing a 700 out of a 87 camaro in dad's 65 chevelle and I've been doing a bunch of on line research. There are a bunch of different wiring schemes in various tranys, so it's true that you should pull the pan. For instance, mine has a 4th gear switch, but it's normaly closed, (***uming it opens when it hits 4th gear). I've got some part numbers for normaly open pressure switch gm 8642473 or 8627332 I'll try and find one to make the wiring easier, or I'll try and use a relay to reverse that. Question: What exactly does the 3-4 switch do, and does anyone have a labeled picture of where the different switches are?
Good questions being asked. The two-wire switches are still on-off switches. The one-wire switches are GROUNDED switches. Keep that in mind. The GROUND is the "other" terminal. Yes, You will need to use a continuity tester or ohm meter to check which is a "normally open" and which is a "normally closed" switch. If you get a reading that the switch is "ON" when you test the terminals, that is "normally Closed" meaning the contacts are touching when no oil pressure is applied. NORMALLY ON is easier to remember. If you do not get a reading without oil pressure, it is NORMALLY OPEN (normally off). If you put a NORMALLY OFF two-terminal pressure switch in the 4th gear port, you can run your dash switch wire to the 4th gear oil pressure switch-- and then run a wire from the "other terminal" of the 4th gear oil pressure switch to the lockup solenoid, then your dash switch will not activate the converter lockup unless the 4th gear oil pressure switch is ON (meaning you are in fourth gear of course). That way it will automatically unlock the converter clutch when you go down to a lower gear. Then you won't have to remember to do it manually. If you wire it that way. I have the different wiring schematics in a manual somewhere. It may take me a bit of time to dig them out again. If someone could post a pic of the switch locations on the valve body it would save everyone time and clear things up. If no one does it., I will dig out something later. Sorry. The simplest and cheapest thing to do is to move one of the NORMALLY OPEN two-terminal oil pressure switches to the 4th gear port (don't forget to close the "old" port you borrowed the switch from- I usually use and old switch I do not need- or a pipe plug), and have the converter solenoid wire run thru that oil pressure switch , then run the second wire of the oil switch to the transmission wiring plug-in. make note of which plug terminal you hook it to. Then you can hook power to your dash switch (please use a fuse), and run the switched-power wire to the trans terminal you chose to use for the lockup. That's the simplest way I can think of. There are more expensive kits that have features such as automatic unlock when you touch the brakes, or unlocking under heavy throttle, etc. If you don't need those features, you can do it really cheap.
http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/shopnow/show_item.asp?product_id=RW%5F700 Here you go, nice and simple.
i've been asking around on the subject of wiring the lock up. some say yes it's a must, and some say it's not necessary (in hawaii) since we rarely get to stay at highway speeds for long periods of time. however that link zombiehotrod just posted up looks like a good solution. if i'm not mistaken it seems like it activates lock up through a pressure switch automatically,no toggles,no fuss...just hook up power/ground and your all set?
I too have done a lot of research on this swap so I won't repeat what the rest have said other than that Bowtie Overdrives had the best info that I found. Also, I read that the rpm slippage between locked and unlocked converter is about 200 rpm.
I would LIKE to use the Pressure Switch set-up like this one http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/shop...ct_id=RW%5F700 but I'm wondering about the operation of it. Is it really nice, just so-so, or a POS?...
I haven't seen the instructions for that kit, but one thing for sure is that it is simple without many features. Whether it is designed to keep you from dropping the oil pan by using the external 4 th gear port on the side of the trans case, or if it is to replace the 4th gear switch on the valve body, it will not likely have the full-throttle unlocking feature that the more expensive kits have, or any other decision-making features that many people like but don't need. I prefer the simplicity of it myself, but if you want extra features, this doesn't have them. I recommend keeping things simple, but it may not be for everyone.
i was just thinking the same thing....hard to tell from just the pic n price but it looks like it just activates at a certain pressure which would probably mean that it would also engage at WFO also? could run a relay and full throttle switch. anyone shed some light on the matter?
Blacktopic***o, Here is a link to a previous thread - (Search function is your friend). A couple guys that posted responses to my thread were very helpful when I PM'd them questions. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384404&highlight=700r4 Another couple links I found useful http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/700r4-parts-lockup-wiring-30179.html http://www.smokemup.com/tech/700r4.php IMHO, from what I've read the 1985 is problematic compared to the later updated versions. Here are some pics from when I simplified the existing lockup wiring in mine, I removed the 3rd gear pressure switch, changed out the 4th gear pressure switch to one that required a few more pounds, and used the existing exit pin on the trans wired to the new vacuum switch on the fire wall. No brake switch, no toggle and its been running daily around town and highway use since September. I take no responsibility for how you modify yours thats your deal. Before AFTER
The last two pictures in your post say it all. Simplicity, and it works! That is the way to do it best. The problems with the 1985 transmission can be cured with a Transgo shift modification kit, oil pump upgrade, and a few extra clutches in the clutch packs. The only problem left will be the small spline count on the input shaft. If you can put in a later 80's larger input shaft, it would help, but will not be needed with a small V8 and/or lightweight car. If the V8 is big, you sure could use the larger input shaft unless the car is light to keep you from twisting the shaft. The 1985 small spline shaft is fine with low to medium power and not-so-heavy cars. IF you can make it shift right to prevent clutch burning. The older small-spline 700's can hold up well for a long time if you don't have a giant size engine. I have a small-spline 1984 trans with a NAPA trans-go rebuild and shift modification kit (using the RV mods and NOT the RACE mods) in my pickup behind a small V8. It will bark the tires going into second when I want to make it do that, and I have been very rough on it. I also haul lumber and my own firewood with it. The small spline shaft 700 has held up well for over a dozen years so far. I know not to put it behind a big V8.
How substantial is an 86 Monte Carlo SS 200-4R tansmission...CZF I believe (I don't have the Tag with me). This is what I'M trying to install a lock-up kit on...
I think the internals are too small and dainty-looking to give me confidence in them, but many swear by those ******s, so there will be others who will rush to their defense. I bought a book on 700 R-4's, read it, and dove in. I have always found that to be the best approach to anything. When you ask experts, ask many and then sort through the answers. If you ask just one or two, you can often end up with mistakes.
If I can ask here. I am having an issuse with one of mine. After the fuel price surge in 2008, I put 700s in my 2 GTOs. I tow with both of them and do a lot of hiway driving and like the 2 series gears. The '66 has a used '86 version out of a Suburban. engine is a tired 350 eng with 2.56 gear. Trans works fine and keeps the motor in the 1,400-1,800 rpm range at cruising speeds. It goes into 4th by 35-40. I've been very happy with it and no issues. The '72 uses a 455HO engine and a rebuilt '89 version 700 with a 2.73 gear. It's been swapped in about 18 months now and is starting to be reluctant to shift into 4th. The 1, 2, 3 shirts are fine. Not too early or too late but, 4th gear is coming in later and later and sometimes not all all unless I lift the throttle, lose 5-10mph, then it'll go into 4th and I can keep it there if I use a light foot. In the 55-65 mph range it seems to not be avble to make its mind up and often drops into 3rd. it has not always been this way. Can anyone advise me on what you think is wrong? Perhaps I can make an adjustment somewhere or is it starting to wear out? Adjusting the TV cable moves all the shift points, correct? I only have an issue with it going into 4th. Thanks for any info you can provide for me. Steve Hosting- 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! April 11 Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Krate, I really don't know very much about these other than the installation and setup of mine and what I've read. I think... It COULD be that the pressure switch for 4th is failing. It would seem that if the pressure switch was leaking or plugged it would need more and more pressure to trigger. I replaced mine with the higher rated pressure switch, cost was $11 and you would only need to drop the pan and replace it. Its the wired switch in the last pic. OR It COULD be a leak or failing vacuum switch. That wouldn't be hard to replace either. You could send a PM to "squirrel" or "onlychevrolets". They both were very helpful and knew more than me about the workings of a 700r4.
It appears to be a brake light switch. Does anyone know what the rating or pounds requirement is of that switch.....?
Guys, I worked for GM dealers several years during the period of time before the electronic computers completely controlled trans. First on the 700r4 and 2004r there is no need for the converter lock up except on cars like the olds 442, buick GN, etc that had lots of converter slippage. As far as I can ascertain, these converters have all been superceded by standard converters unless you special order from like B&M or someone else. I hven't had mine hooked up in my truck (6.2 diesel) for over 20 years. I don't like the way it makes an engine feel like it's lugging. The TV cable- adjust it to the way you like shifts to feel, and don't worry because the 2-3 shift is not the same as 1-2 and 3-4, just make sure all are firm. If you want the lock up without having to fiddle around with ****pit controls- you need two switches inside the trans wired in series with a fused hot wire going to the case connector(by the way, there are three different connectors- a single wire, 2 wires and 4 wires-all same shape and maybe there is a 3 wire- don't remember ever seeing one). Inside wire goes to thru a govornor pressure switch to a n/o 4th gear pressure switch to the lockup solinoid, to ground(case). The govornor pressure switch screws into the gov pressure p***age. They have various pressures to close them- stampted on the side of switch. This is proportional to road speed and almost linear. If you don't want it on until 55-60 mph, get one that has 55 stamped on it. the 4th gear will not close until trans is in od (4th gear). This way if you have to stop quick and the trans is slow to downshift, the gov pressure will open and kick it out. Also if you are creeping along and shift to 4th gear at 35-40, the gov switch is open and lock up won't occur until a higher speed- no SHUDDER or LUGGING. There are modification kits available from trans shops to fix most of the everyday problems with both of these trans shifts. Go and talk to the parts guys, try to go right after lunch when it's probably slow and they are feeling good. DON'T go on friday afternoon- they'll probably kiss you off.
Of course, the lockup should make for better fuel economy if you care about those things, by eliminating slippage. Would think you'd have less wear when it's locked, too.
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