Just saw a first cl*** freshly restored 1940 Ford convertible sell at Barett-Jackson today in Palm Beach for $45K. Said it was a barn find out of New Hampshire. How is it possible for cars like this to sell for less than what it would cost to restore if you include labor cost? A lot of the cars are selling for less than restoration cost. How is this possible? Chrome plating and engine building alone can cost thousands. Seems like it really is cheaper to buy one already done. Please explain.
When you build it yourself you get a few things you don't get when you buy a done one. First, you get it built exactly to your tastes, not someone elses. Next, and most important, the pride of building it yourself.
There is nothing new about a finished car selling for less than it costs to build/restore. For a time, in recent years, it seemed possible to actually get your money back, sometimes even a modest profit. Considering how long a restoration takes to complete, it is possible the subject car was started before the recession. The recession which has caused many people to take measure they would not have a year or two ago. Perhaps the owner 'needed' to sell this upon completion. It the end, cost has no direct link to value. Tired as a cliche it may be "supply and demand" rules the day. Ray
I agree with what you're saying, but am amazed at how the selling prices have gone down but the restoration prices have not. Even muscle cars.
With the world the way it is now, people don't have the money to build a car, but may get a bargain they can afford. It has always cost more to build than buy, but not as much as today.
It's the way you get exactly what you want and the pride of accomplishment. You can't get full value on labor, It must be labor of love.
Not all of us have the luxury to spend 50,000 or more on a car.. but i can put in a couple hundred bones a month no problem. In the long run it might have been easier to buy it done maybe even slightly cheaper, but then there wouldnt be the fun of doing it.
Also, keep in mind that some of those cars don't look as good in real life as they do on TV. Based on what I saw on Speed the first few days of the Palm Beach show, I went down to BJ a few years ago because I thought there were some good deals. The cars I liked were dogs. They weren't all that way, of course, but the ones I "thought" I would have bid on certainly were. Conversely, there are lots of folks going thru though times and perhaps they are just selling their toys (at no reserve) for what ever they can get. Gary
also if there is NO RESERVE on the vehicle it can be a buyers market for sure...auctions are always touting their % of sales and some times the seller takes it in the shorts thinking the car and auctioneer will do well....
would it depend on what your start with?...as said barn - find maybe all it needed was a freshin up...just sayin....what gets me - like in the late 60's or whatever - they are said to be real LOW mileage...in the 20,000 to 40,000 mile range - but they still do a rotisery restore on it?...guess they parked it in a swamp....or always drove it in the ice-n-snow....
BJ is just that, it is akin to the WWE or whatever "pro" wrestling calls itself this decade. Lots of weird **** off camera and behind the scenes. That said, auctions are wierd, my father in law is an auctioneer and I used to help him with them. You can have a "lot" of wooden s****s fetch stupid money and a low mileage 67 Chevy pickup sell for a grand..............I was ringman on that exact one.
since there is that "no reserve clause" there is always the possibility that the owner is buying back his own car. If I had one there, and saw it was going to lose me a nice piece of change, I'd step up and buy it back. Better to lose a little, than lose a lot. And since I was buying it from "me", I'd be very flexible on the price/payment.
Used to be $30,000 or so was ballpark average restoration cost, depending on how much labor was farmed out and how much rust work a car needed. It's rare to be able to restore a car and make money on it, auction or not, unless it's something rare and really desirable. A '40 Ford coupe all you need is a roof and upper quarters/cowl to build one, they repop deck lids and the entire floor, so I have to presume all the lower side tin can be had too.
+1. No reserve auctions are not always "no reserve". Just because it was listed as sold at a price doesn't mean it truly changed hands at that price. Also, restorations are different then builds. When you restore a car there are many many rules to follow that end up causing you to spend money. Most cars you could get for free and when you are done restoring them you will be under water.
It is EXTREMELY rare that you could restore a car and get your money back. Not just "fix'er up", really restore one. I tell guys I do work for, you'll spend 2-3 times what the car will be worth in the end, to really restore it. Why some guys do it? Maybe 'the build' is more important than 'the drive', to some folks. Or they got tired of it and want to start the next one. For some people, to "lose" money on selling a car, even if it's in the thousands, is no big deal. It's all relative to what you finances you have in the first place.
History is repeating itself 20 years later. In the late '80s I had three different premier restoration shops restore a '64 Fairlane Thunderbolt, a '64 Dodge 330 Hemi Lightweight, a '68 Hemi Dart and a '65 Z-16 Chevelle for between $15-$20k each. Their value at the time was $75-$100k. Then in 1990 the bottom fell out and I wound up selling them for $50k-$65k each. I didn't lose any real money because of the low purchase price at that time and the low restoration costs. Prices stayed stale for a decade but the premier restoration shops stayed in business by doing "sentimental" restorations and restorations for the hard core collectors, both who did not care how much more they had in it than it's true value. The cars like mine that had already been restored took a hit just like now. But about 10 years ago the market exploded in value and continued it's upward march for a good 5-7 years. Restoration shops increased their labor rates significantly, N.O.S parts doubled (or more) and restoration supplies increased significantly to cash in on the increased value of the cars. The reason? More buyers than cars, booming economy and wealthy boomers. It's the same old story today as in '90. There are many more cars for sale than buyers so the cars are being sold for less than the restoration cost not to mention the purchase price. And the boomers are near the end of their productive years so they are more frugal with their $s. Have the rare parts declined? Very little if any. Are the premier shops reducing their rates? I don't think so. There are still the "sentimentals" and the hard core collectors. What you don't see today as 20 years ago is the "speculative" restorations.
Plus how much "spending money" took a hit when 401k's tanked. Something's gotta make up for that, and extra cash probably filled in for 401K losses. I watched it today, and it amazed me a hemi Challenger went for less than half the cost one would go for a year or two ago. There were only two or three bidders all day, and the rest were just spectators. But as was said, I don't think a restoration/build is ever cheaper than buying one already done.
What's the average age of someone interested in a restored '40's Ford? Probably well into the 50's, or 60's even. The market for these cars is likely to die off, literally, over the next 10 years.
Buy one already restored. I have completed 4 recently and have 5 in process. Not bad cars: 41 Lincoln, 47 Ford, 48 Ford, 51 Cad, 53 Olds,54 Olds, 55 Chevy,57 Buick, 63 Impala SS. Would take what I have in them, forget about a profit. The market has tanked.
Back in the day up to the late 70s you built a car for fun because you would never or very rarely make a profit . The big $$$$$ investment car thing has been a baby boomer thing the market may be saturated or now not as profitable as the next new venture. Cars at B.J. were treated like a stock market commodity the big players make money when the prices were high and can wright off losses when the prices drop all hiding cash from the IRS. Maybe the bottom will drop out of the market and real car guys can afford to get back in before they green the whole hobby into history.
Well said. It's unfortunate, but people my age (25) just aren't into that stuff. I truly believe the early Ford v8's have increased in value due to guys getting older with more time and an increase in disposable income. Once those older guys die off (10-20 years), who is left to pay the big bucks for a nicely restored specimen?
You're a fool if you think there's not a market (or demand) for a restored forty Ford. That's like saying there's not a market for a restrored Tri- five Nomad or any other Chevy of this vintage for that matter. In any event somebody lost money ( or borke even ) on the deal that started this thread, and the guy that bought it is happy so life goes on... and on and on. I agree with alot of the aforementioned comments regarding the economy and such and believe it is to blame for the glut of stuff being "reasonablly priced" and really think that if you're gonna fool with old cars it has to be worth it to YOU and NOT anyone else. Sorry for the Rant, Seth
I saw it and was thinking the seller was probably looking for a tall building to jump off of. There were some pretty decent deals there this weekend.
From what I saw of the Palm Beach auction prices were lower than for similar cars in Scottsdale. You also have to factor in: What color was it? And was it the original color that the car came out of the factory with. Unlike rods, restorations take a big price hit with a color change no matter how nice it is. How well was it restored. Who restored it. Did it win any national meets? How true and authentic the restoration was. Did the seller just flat loose interest in it? Were there guys there with that particular car on their "have to bid on" list. Most serious bidders go to auctions with a list of cars that they intend to bid on and their max bid on each car noted. And most importantly, as noted by several people in the know, you almost never get what you put in a car back out of it unless you are in the business of building or restoring cars to sell.
I too have wondered about the value of some of our cars as those who seem most interested in them mature, (get gray). The high dollar Camaro for example is Pro Touring big inch as opposed to a stock 302 Z28. My solution to the issue is to ensure my Grandsons car seats will fit in my 32 and the wifes 39.
With Bob Drake’s new molds it won't be long and you will be able to build a complete 40 Coupe. You still will have to come up with doors, interior moldings and a ton of other stuff that is not reproduced yet. Wonder what that will do to the value of a real Ford coupe?
I missed the 40 ragtop But I did see the 56 Lincoln Mark II with dealer installed supercharger sell for I think it was 45K which I thought was a steal too.
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