Why are Transbrakes cheating ???

I have noticed that a lot of notalgia racing events as well as bracket events are against the use of transbrakes .Why is that ? Is it considered as an unfair advantage over say foot braking? In my case the car wont stall enough with the foot brake .It simply over power them and rolls out .With the transbrake i can get all the stall from my convertor.Is that really an unfair advantage ?I realise that Delay and Shutter boxes are not fair in a consistancy contest ,but why is a Transbrake put into the same category ,if i am having to control when i release it manually ?I know of several cars that run a clutchless stick shift ,so whats the diff ? Not trying to start an argument ,i would just like to know why ...

 

When they say "No E" they have to draw the line somewhere. And, if a person were inclined to cheat, it would be pretty easy to hide a delay box and wire it into your transbrake.
Larry T

 

If they didn't have it "then", you can't use it now would be my guess. Besides, why are you loading the converter so hard it pushes the car? Usually, I try to launch as close to idle as possible, long as there's no stumble. This method flashes the converter, allowing a few hundred more RPM stall for a harder launch

 

When did folks start using transbrakes? Mid 70's, maybe?
Larry T

 

They didnt have MSD ignition boxes ,wrinkle wall slicks ,Caltracs ,etc ,"then" either.I have tried my car lots of different ways on the launch (including flashing it ) and it does the best at about 3000 stall,but the convertor is too tight to do that with the foot brake and it wont flash that high either.Unless i spring for a new one with more stall im at a handicap off the line without the Tbrake.I guess i can understand what Larry is saying about the hidden Delay Box stuff though.Someone always has to try and sneak that **** in and mess it up for everyone ...

 

Personally I think automatics should be banned! LOL

 

You said clutchless sticks? i would think that just becauce you are using a "crash box" you still have to leave on the clutch! These have been around forever. I say foot break it or have a stick. done.

 

I agree a stick shift is alot more fun to race with ,and i used to be a stick shift only guy ,but unless you have good stuff like a Richmond ,Jerico ,etc ,you will just break **** constantly running 11's.I know that someone is gunna tell me a story about how they had a friend that ran 9's with a Saginaw 4spd ,but lets face it .That **** is not gunna last too long in a car running 11's and under .I have been there and done that with a 13 second car.For my $$$ level an Auto makes more sense ...

 

Well, I don't know then. But, back around the time of your body style being raced, they had some form of the 3 things you mention here, but nothing at all like a "brake"

 

Send me the $$$ for new convertor that will stall higher and i will do that ...

 

True ,but nothing like the ones they have now.Not even close to the same animal between an MSD 7 Al and a ignition box from the mid 60's .We could talk about that stuff forever and get nowhere ,but my original question was why is a Transbrake alone considered an advantage .Larry T answered it with the possibilty of people cheating by sneaking in a Delay box.I can buy that ...

 

Well then, how about the advantage is exactly what you stated in your 1st post? Forgetting the hidden electronics possibly tied to the brake. Or, a brake basically shocks the suspension in an effort to plant the tire harder, very similar to a stick trans, allowing you a definate advantage over other automatic cars. Hey, I'm just guessing, which is all I suppose anyone other than your sanctioning body can do. BTW, have you asked them? Or, a properly set up "brake" car will have a huge advantage over one without. Kinda speaks for itself, no? Forget for a moment why YOU have one

 

Agreed it shocks the ch***is ,but no harder than say a ClutchFlite (or any clutched Auto would) ,which would be perfectly legal i guess.BTW ,before i lowered the rearend gear ratio in my car it 60'd the exact same footbrake or Transbrake .The problem i have now is the lowered gear increased gear torque and allows it to over power the brakes easier now.Now it 60's great with the Tbrake ,but wont 60' worth a **** on the Footbrake because i cant footbrake over 1800 rpm.Im satisfied with the "Hidden Electronics tied to the Tbrake" reason.I agree that scenerio isnt fair to everyone else in a Bracket race.Thanks for answering my question guys ...

 

Trans brakes ain't cheating!
Automatics are cheating.... Trans brakes just improve the cheating your already doing.

The Trans brake is not the problem in most nostalgia cl***es, it is exactly what was mentioned above, the other electronics that can be used in league with them, to control the launch...

I have a T-brake in the F-100, and a launch control, that is set with a dial ( just for the hell of it, if I ever wanna use it for that there "brackety" racing, or on particularly poor traction nights, so I don't get all overzealous foot braking, and spin like a mother...)
A lot of times, you can use the brake, without violating any cl*** rules, but you have to remove the low side chip, or dial a launch must be removed...I know it is that way for East Coast G***ers compe***ion.

 

Most "no electronics" rules don 't apply to transbrakes, no more than they apply to roll controls/linelocks; the purpose is BASICALLY the same with all of those. I agree on stutter boxes, crossovers, throttle stops, and the like, being banned from some cl***es of racing, or even all for that matter. The driver HAS to DO something! I have a fully prepped race Powerglide, that all the driver has to do is stage the car and release the transbrake ****on. It even has an internal electric shift feature, that can be wired into the shift light, so when the shift light flashes, the trans shifts into high, without the driver doing ANYTHING. I don't plan on using it, I built it for bartering purposes. As far as the "nostalgia" races go, since electronics were'nt available back then, why allow them now? If you're not being allowed to use your transbrake for nostalgia events, use two linelocks/rollcontrols, front brakes and rear. Even that's not legal, but it gets done. Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

The cars are generelly not faster with a trans brake just easier to drive.
First more stall would help. Many folks think that the car wont move till the stall is reached. when all the stall means is max available. I use exclusivley converters from Frank Lupo. They cost no more than the ones that dont work and are very efficient as well. In my street piece 63 426 MW I have a 9 (actually about 9.5") inch converter of 3800 stall. If I took you for a drive normally it would not even occur to you the car had a converter. It will roll along at 30 MPH idling in gear no trouble (about 900 to 1000 RPM) and yet if I decide your going down I can have ALL 3800 RPM with just a foot brake. My wife says it hurts her neck when i do that. (Doesnt bother mine a bit!;>) ). So more stall is one option. I will also say right here a good converter and I believe Franks to be the best(I have had 5 or 6 other brands) will do more for you ET AND MPH than all the trick **** you will ever read in HRM etc. Typical gains are 3 to 4 tenths with a 500 rpm reduction in the lights AND a 3 to 4 MPH increase in trap speed. (over the compe***ions by the way not as compared to a stock one. )Other brands just slip like a slimy pig to get the stall. Franks do not. He can explain. My race car 74 Dodge Charger i ran a Frank Lupo of 5100 stall. I left so hard you could here yourself say "oogh" every launch. And if you have ever run a 1.52 short time in a 4150 pound car you will know what I mean. It felt like you had been hit with transport truck from behind and yet you could idle back the return road like anormal stock car. Before i put a trans brake in we used what used to known as a Peuto Ricon ****** brake. (Dont get mad The name is not mine i read it in pop hot rdding in the 80s) We used both front and rear line locks for launch . This helps quite a bit if your converter is pushing. The line locks are wired so they can be usedfront only for burnouts or both for launch. We had a big long handle switch in the car and I used diode switching to open the circuit or block it for one mode or the other. It worked well enough that when we did put in the transbrake the Et did not change. My nephew who was chief shoe wanted it as he had bought a delay box. Interestngly while we were often points leader and runner up with the linelock deal we never won squat after he got the delay box. Before that we made so much we paid for the car.
One of the big things to me anyway about nostagia racing is it is for fun. When i go i am not consumed with winning , In fact i often dont run anything but time trials and test and tunes. Anyway this gives you a couple of workable options. Two line locs or more converter. If you have a decent converter (small diameter 8 or 9 inch)to start with they can often use your core to make a killer one.
Don

 

Sounds like maybe it's time for guys to start
using the old 'clutch-flyte' and 'clutch-turbo'
******s again! They were used
'back in the day, ' so they shoiuld definitely
fit the spirit of the rules. On the starting line
with the clutch engaged -simillar to using a
****** brake and unlike using a foot brake
on a convertor equipped automatic, the
drivetrain and suspension is unloaded and
unaffected by engine torque, and the car can
still sit completely stationary, unbraked or
with only a line-lock activating the front
brakes. Combine that with the more or less
unlimited launch rpm potentional of a clutch
(and complete absence of losses due to
convertor slippage in high gear compared to
a conventional high-stall converter equpped
automatic - plus the near impossibility of
blowing a shift as with a normal clutch-shifted
manual trans, and I think you'd have the best
of all worlds. Anybody else have some thoughts
on this???

Mart3406
=================================

 

One thing i will add to this ,even though it doesnt have much to do with the original topic.Its funny how alot of people frown on an Auto trans in a nostalgia drag car ,but has anyone ever heard of a B and M Hydrostick ?I know a guy that will tell you a stick shift is the only way to go in a race car ,but has a Hydrostick man tatt on his arm .Actually my Powerglide is more Nostalgic than a T400 ,T350 ,or a C4 if you go by a calender .I used to frown on Auto's myself for a drag car ,until i realised the $$$ involved to make one hold up in a Fast dragcar .I was narrow minded and im not affraid to admit it now.If i had the bucks i would run a Jerico stick ,but until i have a long lost realitive Will me sum big bucks for the Trans and other parts needed to switch it over,im stuck with the Auto.It just kinda ****s that the transbrake part limits me on where i can race...

 

Well, then it may be as simple as I said earlier. If it wasn't used "then", it can't be used now. More importantly, is what are you going to do to get back the performance?

 

Simple ,im just not gunna race at events that dont allow a Transbrake.There are still lots of events that dont get hung up on the small stuff ,and just want to see old cars race and have ****s in the bleachers .I have never really been about winning events at Nostalgia racing ,just out to have fun and out do myself each time .I am gunna keep improving my car little by little ,but the Transbrake is staying .If all else fails ,there is always TNT nights locally to go to ...

 

a trans brake is just a solenoid in the valve body. i dont see how that falls under electronics. i run a stick car and have a line lock on the front brakes for burnouts and sometimes i use it on the line to keep from rolling out of the prestage beam when im staged. i like to stage with the clutch pedal right at the point where the clutch starts to grab. if you cant use a trans brake i guess i shouldnt be allowed to use a line lock. whats the diff between me dumping the clutch a 5k and a guy with an auto launching off the convertor at 5k. we are both gonna leave hard, not any advantage between either car. but this must be an issue with tracks in your area as the local track here is no box in all cl***es except bikes and trans brakes are allowed. so if your having an issue with your local track you could politely ask hows it unfair to use a trans brake vs dumping a clutch pedal?

 

Just curious. How much short time do you lose on the footbrake?

 

My point Exactly .I recently saw a flyer to a Nostalgia race coming up and it states on the Flyer "No electronics ,Nitrous ,or Transbrakes" .I havent actually been to Nostalgia race where they told me no ,but i feel it might be contagious at other events as well.This flyer i saw was the first time i have heard of it at a Nostalgis event ,and it got me thinking ...

 

Almost a tenth with the gear change in the 60' with the footbrake at 1800 vrs the Tbrake at 3000 ...

 

if this is an event you were planning on racing at, a phone call or email asking about the rule wouldnt be out of line. if they say no, and its a race you really want to attend. i say disconnect the trans brake and race. just be sure the trans brake is disconnected in a way that if challenged, you can prove it is inoperable.

 

I imagine that doesn't mean you can't have a brake installed, only that you cannot use it. ???
I can't see them wanting to turn away otherwise o.k. cars, and their owners money, but, I don't know...I guess it depends on the track/event.
The worst case would be run, not use it, and lose a bit of performance/predictability.

 

so just dial in a .10 slower.....dont use the ****on and keep racing, just because the car has one, doesnt mean you have to use it?

 

RE auto trans .
i use an auto because i cant remember anymore where all the gears are on a standard!
Really because i dont want a flyheel and a clutch and trying to find a ****terscheild and explosion proof flywheel etc etc. Also I dont want any more pedals in the car. It used to be an auto was thought of as a disadvantage. Who changed the rules?????????
Don

 

I cut a 1.300.....60' time with just foot braking the last time out, but I also broke the camshaft in a few places on that p*** just after the 60' mark.......leaving at only 2,100 rpms and its trying to push thru the lights.......it's all in the combination.........The first time I use a transbrake will be in DeathsDoorStep...and I am taking it to the moon...........Littleman

 

we allow them in our monthly race at thunder valley with a 4.0 pro tree. the advantage is you can certainly release a ****on and instantly leave faster than you can use both feet and accelerate ie; reaction time,. however some guys are super good if not superior to the t brake with their feet. ardmore is a transbrake legal g***er cl*** at both of the nostalgia races as are all of ours with the csga. however we are not dyed in the wool, gotta have old **** to race with us, kinda guys..