I'm Done With Hydraulic Throwout Bearings

I can't speak for Mcleod, as I have not used one of theirs, but I am done with Howe, Ram and Southwest Speed hydraulic throw out bearings. I have had all three installed on my Galaxie and all three brands have blown the O-rings out of them. I have the required 3/4" Master cylinder with a pedal stop to prevent over travel, and they are installed correctly. They do not last longer than a few weeks of driving. They are all a double O-ring design. I am going to use a slave cylinder and a conventional fork along with some severe header mods.

 

Somehow, I think you're overextended in there. Maybe a spacer missing? Do you have some sort of adapter keeping the engine away from the transmission a bit too much?

 

I'm usen the ram with no prob yet!!.2200 lbs pres plate to.But thanks for the heads up.

 

No, everything is properly spaced. I should have clarified, the O-rings don't actually blow out, they rupture. Also, I have the same exact Southwest Speed hydraulic throwout bearing in my 289 powered '27 Track T, and have never had an issue.

 

Are they somehow getting hot and overheating?

 

I like slave cylinders. Much easier to service if theres a problem. Gary

 

no offense, but
common sense is telling me if you have the same kit in another car with no issues, the problem may lay elsewhere.



skull

 

Got any pics of the 'ruptured o-rings' ? Perhaps some dis***embly progress pics?

.

 

I know you believe you have everything in order, BUT, something is not right in there. For all three brands to fail so rapidly, and especially one that works fine in your other car, it sure suggests a local problem gone overlooked.

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to offer........just suggesting the troubleshooting isn't done yet. Best wishes with the problem.

Ray

 

I have been struggling with these bearings since I built the car in 2005. I cannot enjoy a car that I cannot trust. Do a search for "Howe hydraulic throwout bearings and see how many others are having or have had the same problems.

 

I'm with you. If they do fail it's to much h***el to get to them to fix. Just not worth it IMHO. And they do seem to fail.

 

Put an automatic in it.............problem solved

Ray

 

I think it was a Tilton that I installed in the '50 Ford that I had, and it worked great.

 

I do like externally mounted slave cylinders with a traditional fork setup better. Easier to service.

 

I've heard nothing but good things about McLeod and fully intend on spending the money on one after hearing so many similar problem stories. I hate messing with this kind of stuff.

On the flip side, I've heard several success stories using these types of hydraulic T-out bearings. At this point the ratio of bad stories too good stories is still too high for me.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. No fun at all!

 

I had a lakewood bearing in My Anglia, and it blew the seals out in less than a year. I'm tieed of working on trans related problems,I jusy want to drive My hotrod!! I've got a 350 turbo built, with a 3500 stall conv., thats going in soon.


Buzz

 

I have tried hydraulic throwout bearings from Ram, Howe and Southwest Speed. They have all leaked, and the O-rings have failed in all of them. The installations have all been correct with the correct master cylinder, and a pedal stop to prevent over-stroking the bearing. These bearings are designed for circle track cars where the car is started in one gear and there is no shifting involved. I am convinced that they will not last on the street.

Here is one of the three bearings that failed miserably:


You can see the grooves where the O-rings install here:


Here are the blown O-rings. I believe that larger diameter O-rings would solve the problem:


Since I have a '64 galaxie with a 351 Cleveland, there are no headers made that will accomodate manual clutch linkage. I am using headers for a '70 Torino with an automatic transmission hence the need for a hydraulic clutch setup.

I already had the clutch master cylinder mounted and connected to the clutch pedal, so I will skip that part of the installation.

Here is the Speedway Motors "pull" type slave cylinder I will be using:


A bracket was made to bolt to the side of the Borg warner Super T-10 ******:




A stock Ford fork was modified by "pie cutting" a piece out to bend back the outer most part of the fork for header clearance:


A piece of 1/8" strap was used to reinforce the modified area of the fork:



Here is the installed slave cylinder:






The adjustment is made at the fork with the pull rod:


The completed installation works great, and if there is ever a problem, the slave cylinder is easily serviced.

 

Glad you didn't go with a slushbox as was suggested. Hot Rods have 3 pedals.

 

Buy cheap nasty evil **** (that costs a lot of money) , and expect really BAD results.

Nobody uses "O" rings for a sliding seal application, that is INSANITY.

All clutch master and slave cylinders use lip or cup seals, because they are made to slide within a bore and seal.
An "O" ring is a static seal, (rather like a gasket), that works wonderfully well if both the "O" ring material is suitable for the fluid, and the properly machined rectangular groove the "O" ring sits in are clamped in position, and nothing moves.

The idea of a donut clutch release cylinder is certainly mechanically sound, but the greedy and ignorant corporate crooks that decided to save a few cents, and get rich quick deserve to be burned at the stake.

It really pisses me off seeing racers and hot rodders being continually ripped off and scammed with sub standard **** that is woefully designed. But that is the way the world works these days................

Hey send me $99.95, and I will give you something guaranteed to cut ALL your fuel bills in half.
Double your money back if it does not work as advertised.
You get a five cent pair of plastic scissors made in China for your hundred.

The world is full of *** holes, crooks, thieves, sheisters and liars. So research anything you plan to fit to your ride very thoroughly before parting with any cash.

 

I am having a difficult time understanding all of the problems with these throwout bearings. All of the new cars have them installed and I haven't heard of any problems at all. I have one in my O/T Mustang that came from the factory that way and I love it. So much so I am considering puting one in my '40 Pickup I am building.

 

Yes, the OEM factory stuff is always fine, because it is designed by engineers and they have warranty issues to think about.

But "Shifty Tom Racing Enterprises" based in China that sells on e-bay is something rather different.....

 

open a industrial hydraulic cylinder a lot of them use o rings
i work in the marine transmission field and almost all the clutch pistons in hydraulic gear boxes use o rings to seal them

 

There are hydraulic applications such as shuttle valves that use "O" rings, but in that application a bit of leakage does not matter. Even disc brake calipers use rectangular seals, but the piston travel is minute.

The design of seals and gaskets is a spe******t art. But a clutch slave cylinder has both a lot of travel, and it is expected to seal without weeping. An "O" ring is just not up to that application.

 

I worked as an automotive machine-tool designer. We rarely used hydraulic cylinders...mostly air...they're faster. It was interesting to me that the cross-section of an air-cylinder seal was so intricate. And it was easy to see why. They are designed in such a way, that the pressurized air forces the lip of the seal against the body of the cylinder and the shaft, making leakage impossible. If air won't leak using such seals even under high pressure, than hydraulic-fluid sure wouldn't. But those seals are a little more expensive than a simple o-ring. I think you're right, Warpspeed...they're just being cheap fu**ers.

One additional thought. Someone mentioned heat, but could cold weather have anything to do with it? It doesn't negate the fact that o-rings shouldn't be used in the first place, but low temps might shrink and harden the o-rings, allowing them to leak, and making them prone to damage. Frozen o-rings brought the shuttle down. Even though that was a static application, the idea is the same. Just thinkin'.

 

Exactly right Rickybop.

Any pressure increase just makes a lip seal press tighter against the bore or the shaft.
But I bet the end plates of your air cylinders seal to the bores with plain "O" rings where there is no relative motion.

It has always fascinated me how British motorcycles and cars always leak oil, even when brand new. But Japanese cars and motorcycles hardly ever leak, unless there is a serious maintenance fault that has developed. It is all about detailed design, and the proper application of seals and gaskets. The aerospace people and the military are fanatical about this kind of stuff, as is the nuclear industry. The knowledge is there, and experienced engineers know about this stuff. But the get rich quick people in the after market speed industry neither know nor care. To them profit is everything.

 

I would be checking that the gear box an engine are correctly aligned, if the clutch fingers and throw out are not aligned correctly then the axial loading will flog it out real fast. Has the o'rings been failing consistantly on the same side?

 

I have had the same problem. What really happens is that the oring does not slide on the center hub.That causes the oring to roll and twist and eventually break.I don't know if a square oring would fix it but should help.Just seems like brake fluid can't lube it enough.

 

The bellhousing was properly indexed to the centerline of the crankshaft, and re-checked more than once. I have had both the front and rear O-rings fail so it was not always the same one.

 

If you have a pedal stop and your still having trouble I would blame it on heat. Cut some vent holes in the block plate and a few in the bell housing. It could be me but the external one looks like it's a bit close to the header and it will boil. I know how frustrating this can be. I hope you get it worked out >>>>.

 

I've read all your posts on this thread and am struck by your virulent bitter acusations of "the get rich quick crowd" and "greedy, profit driven" etc, etc. It would appear you have never been in business, else you would have a greater appreciation for the need to operate at a profit. Indeed, if you are not in business for yourself, then you surely work for some enterprise and are still dependent on THEIR need to make a profit to continue employing you.

That said, though, I AM NOT advocating poor quality or poor engineering as a means to the profit. But, there is one element that you do not address......the BUYER !! Many, many people simply will not pay a bit more for a quality engineered, quality manufactured product. If the market for your product is limited in volume in the first place, it may not be economically feasible to build and market a superior product, usless you have and can maintain a monopoly.........the lower the volume the greater the amount each piece sold must bear of the development costs as well as the production and marketing costs.

Walk a mile in the other guy's moccasins before judging him.........

Ray