Real Paint people, what paper for last block?

I am listening!

I have used a gallon of featherfill less a pint on the body of the car in two applications (1/2 gal each). I have applied 1 gallon of primer and intend on using another 1/2 gallon. I have sanded the **** out of the car at each block (2@ 80, 1@ 120, 1@ 360) trying to make the most of each application.

I don't think I have left a lot of primer so hopefully being overly thick won't be an issue, but you have me thinking....

 

Hey 39
the highlander is right.Seems your on a little to strong. Also you haven't mentioned any spot putty. I would wet sand it with 600. Until your hands bleed is a good indicator. That first coat of premium primer was enough.You can never over hand sand a car.

 

Highlander makes an excellent point (as he always does) but I'm a little curious. How many coats of each did you put on during each block? I've had people tell me they primed something 3 times meaning they put 3 coats on! I know it may sound stupid but many things can get lost in translation. It doesn't sound to me, based on your last post, that you have that much product on the car. Also how crazy did you go on the blocking? Did most of the product you put on end up on the floor? I personally wouldn't be as worried about film build, but I would absolutely leave the car outside in the sun and make sure all those solvents evap out of the polyester coats after you prime again. Thats the reason I don't use them...

 

Oh ya and as for the original question, I go to 320 regardless, but 99% of the time I seal. If for some reason I don't, 400-600 sounds good but I would NEVER go any higher for fear of losing adhesion.

 

Ouch,

I have block sanded the **** out of the car, I have always stopped sanding when I begin to hit metal.

I have worked pretty hard to get everything as thin as possible.

For sure I will be using a premium sealer.

I used very little spot putty, virtually none.

 

I have been painting for 33 years. I would never apply a Poly Primer over a Urethane Primer ! ! ! As mentioned prior, you should prep. all metal and bodywork with (at least 80 grit)
and then apply 2 coats of Poly Prime (Featherfill, etc...). You should then block the snot out of the Poly Primer with multiple
guide coats and increasingly finer grades of sandpaper. Once you've gotten to 180 grit, and the guide coat shows that you are
flat, you should apply no more than 3 coats of Premiere Urethane
Primer. You should use 180 grit paper to lightly cut the Premiere
Primer and work you way up to 400 grit if you're going to use a Sealer. If your primer states that you don't have to utilize a sealer; I go up to 600 grit and apply the BC/CC. You should only apply Poly Primer to cured Epoxy Primer; I'd be real concerned with the Poly Primer over the Urethane Primer. Good luck.

VOO DOO R & C.

 

320 or 400 your primer, seal, then paint. if you need to nid the sealer (due to dirt, or seedy sealer, use 600 w/d)

or, 600 w/d for color over urethane primer.

now-a-days for waterborne basecoats (we sell ppg's EHP or Autocolor's Aquabase Plus) 800 grit. It achieves hide quickly, but there is almost no film build to this type of paint, and co****r scratches will show.

 

100% right on application over epoxy.

bare metal -> metal treatment -> epoxy-> body filler-> polyester -> urethane primer -> color -> clear.

great way to go.

 

You're not too far out there. Since you've been so up close and personal with the surface you know where it's heavy and where it needs more. Go conservative and take down a bit more to reduce the effects of solvent penetration, especially where curves and reveals gather some extra thickness. If you feel it's thin enough, and based on your amounts you may be ok, add a nice "finish" coat of primer. By using a proper reducer, thin it down just a minor amount more than for normal film build. Now I know based on the above it sounds contradictory...more solvent. You can handle it by allowing the maximum amount of flash time between coats. If it goes on nice and smooth you'll have an easy time finishing it to 400 and keeping thickness in check. Spraying it on reduced will allow it to cure faster and evaporate the solvents more completely between coats. Even so, a few extra days before color coats will be a healthy choice. You said you were going to seal, and it's going a solid blue. If it's a dark blue get a black sealer. Sounds simple , I know, but a black sealer will make it easier to color and give it some extra depth without excess coats.

 

the author of that textbook was on ACID the day of publishing!!haha

 

nah i aint got no 39! unless your offering?? just had the pleasure of working on one. an original rumble seat too which was cool? check that site and tell me what you think! it is a street rod so don't judge !! lots of people do not like street rods, but there is a market for me and i need to eat! nice linc by the way!!

 

I really apreciate all of the comments. The HAMB is a great resource and I want to thank everyone for helping me out. I wish I would have asked earlier, but still, between my screw ups and the voice of experience so graciously extended by you fine folks I am going to learn something.

I still welcome any coments that anyone wants to add, we learn best from folks who do.

As an ***ide, does anyone out there besides me like blocking? I don't like the idea of getting started, but I love watching the details come into focus, it just makes me feel good.

 

I do too! No one understands it and everyone thinks I'm crazy!

 

I love long blocking with 36/80 grit. Its a great workout and it doesnt make much noise so its something that can be done at 4:00am. It makes me feel good, like a big man.
After arriving to the point of no longer blocking with guide-coat it can make you go nutty becuase you can't see the results of your labor, but the waves are still there!

 

Great thread! I'm prepping my truck right now and will let it sit for awhile before final color. I'm using DuPont 7704S 2K urethane primer over acid etch bare metal. I will have to park it outside at some point so I was going to give it a coat of HOK epoxy primer sealer to keep the moisture out. When I'm ready to paint I was going to sand that and seal and then top coats. Does anybody see a problem with that plan?

Thanks for all the advice.

 

said perfect 600 takes a bit longer but any time spent before paint helps in the end.

 

Nobody mentioned putting a supper light mist coat of "guide coat" using a spray can over the primer. It helps you know for sure that the car is completely sanded with the finer grit because if you can still see guide coat, it needs more sanding. It also helps you get scratches out by making them more visible for sanding.

 

Good info- let's keep it going. bttt

 

400 for solid colors and / or single stage.

800 for metallics, especially light colors like silver or that stupid pea-green pearl you see on late model VW's.

600 for everything else.

 

It's the final product and always rewarding to see it come into shape. I looked at your pics and I see a detail you might be missing and I might be giving something away saying it in the open, but WTF. You need to have those doors mounted and set right where they want to be. You need to block the doors and 1/4s together otherwise you'll have a "droop" in the door gap scanning down the side of the car. You've seen it on some pretty high line cars. I know you've seen it because you like to surface and you're critical of other finish work, right? Fenders, hood, mostly OK and hard to blend those line together, but the door gaps. You'll be glad you did it.

 

lots of good info.....

as you are using a solid color you can get away with the co****r (320-400) grit, but 500 sure wont hurt

the secret as others have mentioned is a good sealer. this helps the paint to stick, ans holds out the scratches

any scrathces you see in the base will be gone with clear on solids.

agreeed on the fine metalics, and water base, you need 800 grit to not see scrathces. sherwin had a great catyliszed clear sealer that would fill 320 grit and let you blend a silver job with no sctratches. unfortualy its gone the way of all the other good stuff, but some of you may still be able to get it in your areas.

im sure the new stuff is good, but ever sense the days of feather fill and eliminator, i cant use polyesther primers any more, just dont trust them


skull

 

ive seen poyester do that many times.....seems like if you sandwich it between acrylics, and or get it warm you got problems. heat breaks it down, and the reaction with acrylics will make heat and make it peel , or worse it will split up and look like a road atlas.

back in 78 or so the shop next door piled eliminator all over a laquer checked caddy....painted it, looked great. week or so later after being in the sun it truned into a road map, and you could peel it off in sheets


skull

 

Good Point, Highlander. I've seen pics where lead has been added to blend the panel edges together but I guess now you could use filler if it's not too out of control. I get as much done on the panels that are off the car and then re***emble and sand the panel joins through such as the door to cowl and quarter panel. It's a lot of work to re***emble then take it apart again to start spraying and then re***emble but if you want a smooth continuous look it's a necessary step. It makes me pretty nervous trying to hang panels back on after paint and not scratch or chip while doing so.

 

blocking can be a ***** if your taking off from someone elses work, other than that its awesome cause it's in the final stages of paint!! all tha hard work pays off when you step into that booth to fire away!! so blocking rules!

 

man i hate blocking, you guys are crazy. i'll spray all day but blocking ****s, but it is a necessary evil.

 

I spent a lot of time making them fit the openings in mock up, I even pie cut the lower door frames to make the doors follow the door openings, worked the hinges and even opened up the p***enger door opening 1/4", (this side was wrecked pretty bad back when they repaired with lead on common cars).

I am critical enough that I have taken note that very often the doors fit like **** on these 30s Fords, and I was determined that mine would fit well.

Up until now I was thinking that it would be easy to make them fit because they fit good before, my thinking gets me in trouble a lot though...

I usually learn things the hard way, I will take your advise seriously and mount the doors prior to my next block. Thank for the heads up!

As for the polyester primer, I will sand it thin, but I am not taking it all the way off this trip. I guess it might burn me, if and when it does I will come clean here so others don't follow.