Brad FWIW I agree with you....but my point was that the Guvmint has seen fit to "make money" out of motorists b/c we are an easy target here in Oz. My rod has been built to very strict guidelines here in Oz -it has a collapsible column, wipers,a breakaway column, seat belts, properly mounted seats, a demister (hidden),decent tail lites/indicators, and has been brake & handling tested by the registration authorities. Personal freedom is a different issue.....thats what my gripe was about. And yeah, if you cant control your kids in the car....let em walk. Not tryin to be a smart ass....but from what Ive seen of a lot of "cool" rides Stateside, they would'nt even be allowed on the roads in Oz. PERIOD !! Shit like no floors, no front brakes, cheater slicks, open headers, no seat belts, no wipers, no collapsible ior breakaway columns, no demisters, shitty welds, exhaust close to fuel lines etc are common....shall I go on? It does'nt take skill or attention to detail to build a shitty, unsafe, dangerous, "cool" ride..... But legislating away our freedoms is a different issue in itself...Im sure you all agree. Rat And I saw heaps when i was over two yrs ago.... Rat
I agree with flat ernie 100%. Nobody is denying the fact that seatbelts save lives, I wear them. Its just I don't like the government protecting me from myself. I doubt if I get thrown from my vehicle that its gonna hurt or injure someone else. How many of you smoke or drink? Its like if the government outlawed drinking alcohol or smoking because its bad for you and could kill you, same thing. Seatbelts should be worn, they do save lives, it just shouldn't be a law that takes away a persons freedoms
My prayers to your wife's family...sorry to hear of her and your loss. I completely agree with seatbelt use and it was brougth home to me last month when I get a call one drizzily, dreary morning at work. It was my wife on her cell saying some brain donor pulled out in front of her 02 Intrepid at about 40 MPH. She blasted the puller-outer in the 1/4 panel and bumper corner....hard! She was wearing her belt and aside from a sore knee or two, she was ok. Car didn't do so well. I gotta thank the "crumple zone" as well, for protecting her from the inpact. The collapsing front of the car did it's job even tho the car died to save her...
Rocky, Good to hear your wife is OK. In the final accounting it's only a car and they can be replaced. You can't replace loved ones and it's a proven fact: SEAT BELTS SAVE LIVES. Frank
Brad, never said I condoned not wearing belts or if I did/didn't wear 'em - you're putting your words into my mouth. [ QUOTE ] These conversations piss me off. Belts save lives. If you don't want to wear one, I have no problem with the government charging you a stupid tax by way of a ticket. [/ QUOTE ] I'd be willing to venture you're under 30. That's not meant as a slam, just perspective. The endless lobbying of the insurance companies beginning in the mid-late 60s has been all about the almighty dollar, not public safety. If you believe the government is truly interested in your safety and it makes you feel better, no problem. I, for one, know that a politician's sole job is to get reelected. Period. Keep that in mind while they're legislating away your rights because that's what's happening. A strong case can be made for using seatbelts whether you choose to or not. The case for helmets isn't quite as ironclad. The two leading causes of death in motorcycle accidents are head trauma & neck injuries. For those of us who ride, we know that tangling with a car is bad news no matter what - you're exposed & unprotected by your "steel safety cage" & "crumple zones" - bones & muscle don't do well against 3500lbs of steel & plastic. But look at the two primary causes of death - head & neck injuries. California offers the perfect case study. Until about 8 yrs ago, CA never had a helmet law. Then they implemented one. Motorcycle registrations per 1000 people declined by an average of 23% per year for the next three years, yet deaths involved in motorcycle accidents went up by nearly 35%. Primary cause of death? Neck injuries. Let's re-visit your "body in motion" argument for a second. Your neck was designed to support your head. Add an additional 3-5lbs for a helmet & the whole 1/2mass x velocity Sqrd gets even more interesting - necks break. To make matters worse, when involved in a face-first impact, many of the full-face helmets will roll up & back over the head with the leverage of the chin guard. The chinstrap will tighten up & pull the head along with it. When the nape of the helmet contacts the back of the neck & the helmet keeps rotating, it can only go up - popping the head off the spinal cord. Instant death. So while that piece of plastic on your noggin may protect you from a six-year old girl with a Louisville Slugger, it's not necessarily helping in an accident. And in CA, the cause of death due to neck injury was 6 times more common than head injury (those still happened) after implementation of the mandatory helmet law. This correlation holds true in states w/& w/o helmet laws. Those with helmet laws have a 6-times higher death rate due to neck injury. Those w/o helmet laws have approximately 15-20% lower death rates overall, but the leading cause is head trauma by about 3-1. That's what I mean about weighing the risks & accepting them based on what's right for you. Knowing the facts that I know, I would choose to be less likely to be involved in an accident by not wearing a helmet, than to have my noggin protected in the limited instances where it will help - fully realzing that if involved in a major accident, I will likely die of head injuries (but a helmet wouldn't have saved me anyway). It's not about a law, it's about common sense & freedom. Doesn't matter if driving is a privelege & not a right (I never contended that driving was actually a privilege) - it's about my freedom of choice & the gov't requirement not to meddle in my "pursuit of happiness." Pick up a copy of the Constitution some day & read it. It's actually quite a short document & you can read it in about 30 minutes. It's about principles. We've lost them & the lemmings will continue to allow our rights to be ferreted away. You may disagree with me, but I will defend to the death your right to do so.
Thanx Ernie...couldnt nhave said it better.... Pollies dont give a shit about people....PERIOD. All this anti smoking, politically correct bullshit to appease the masses....and they slap a huge tax on cigs...like 10 bucks for a pack. Pleease ....the ULTIMATE HYPOCRISY !! Rat out
[ QUOTE ] Ford first started putting seatbelts in cars in '56, I believe. GM soon after. Not sure about Chrysler products. If anyone has a car from that era and no seatbelts - it might be worth a look at the chassis to see if the mounting points are there already (and solid, of course). Then buy new belts and pop them in. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know for sure when GM started installing them at the factory, but I think it was after 1957. I remember my dad telling me he bought seatbelts for HIS dad's '57 Chevy as a father's day present way back when. He figured he had an afternoon's worth of work ahead of him, but the mount points were already there. He just had to cut the carpet and bolt them in.
Just another note - if you have children young enough to need a child seat, take the time to go to the local junkyard and get some LATCH (lower anchors and tethers) hooks. They allow the child seat to be much more secure than using the seatbelt. The local junkyard gave me 2 sets (one for each side of the backseat) for $5.00. They were out of a rolled Durango. They should bolt in pretty easily if you have a seam where the seat bottom and back come together.
I've had belts in all my cars. I had the nightmare, at about age five, of seeing the aftermath of my mom bouncing out of my dad's '40 Chevy after it was T-boned. She was VERY lucky. She had black bruising, on her backside, from her thighs to her waist. I, at 13, was the one who installed the belts in my Dad's first car that had factory holes for them - a '62 Rambler. My first car a (not so hi-po) '60 Renault Dauphine got belts before it left the garage for the first time. The only thing that was in my next car's ('57 Chevy) interior when I got it were some classic chrome buckle seat belts. No seats but it had belts! It just doesn't feel right driving without belts!
Way back at the top I wasn't trying to open this can of worms either, I just merely wanted to bitch about how cars now have crappy visibility. I wear my seat belt whenever I'm in a car that has them- even though I don't have to- I LIVE IN THE STATE WITH NO SEATBELT LAW! I would be willing to bet that the person that pulled out in front of Rocky's wife was NOT in a car that had the visibility of my '55 Fairlane, though. The other driver was more than likely a dumbass, however there is a possiblity that Rocky's car was in one of the other blindspots on the other car. In newer cars, I've almost hit stuff while wide awake and fully attentive- just couldn't see through the pillars.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel safer in anything that has a real frame under it, and real metal bumpers that are bolted to that same frame! I must admit, I don't like my state's seat belt law. I usually don't use mine when I go to work, because it's not even 10 minutes away and I barely hit 50mph. Whenever I go on a main road where there will be higher speeds and more traffic I put it on. I trust myself, but I don't trust all the other whackos out there who think 55 means 70. I do plan to put lap belts in the front seats of my '47 before i get it on the road in the spring, nobody will ever ride in the back anyway. Couple years ago I got pulled over and the cop started to lecture me about seatbelts until I pointed out I was wearing my lap belt. He stepped back, looked at the car, and let me go!
I lost a friend today when his '23 bucket experienced a "malfunction" and he went headlong into a construction dumpster at less than 50 mph. It was a side street....they knew it well....no seatbelts...both of them were ejected and killed instantly. Please wear your seatbelts, fellas... Hey Lyle...God bless ya...you won't be forgotten!!!
Our local paper has articles on vehicle deaths on a daily basis. Most involve folks not wearing seat belts. For $50-$75, why take a chance on the only life you've got? Juliano's has great belts,easy to install. I got a very nice set for my A from Andover Restraints.They are DOT approved,long enough to reach around anyone's tummy and have the polished stainless, plain lift release that was popular in the '60s so they would look good in anything. I paid less than $40 for the pair.
I have lap belts in my 51, at least its better than nothing. My step dad was in an accident 15 years ago (not wearing his seatbelt) and was thrown out of the windshield and landed on the street. People dont realize how easy it is to get flung out of a vehicle in an accident.
Plum, So sorry on your loss. It hurts even more when you know it may have been preventable. Seat belt use is a NO brainer. The lame excuse that one may have better visibilty is full of holes. The only thing you will see better is the spot where you will land when you get thrown out of a car. It is not " traditional" to die of stupidity....Guys if you do not have them in your rides, install them..Kidd
Flaternie, basically you have stated what I believe. Safety devices are a good thing. I wear my seatbelts out of choice, but hate having been told I have to. Samething on safety helmets, motorcycle or racing. Plumcrzy, my heart goes out to you and your family. Flaternie, in closing, what does this mean?risks &? I noticed you added the & thingy medodger after several statements. Just wondering what it noted.
I am sorry for your wives loss and the loss of life. On this topic. It's just so tough. There are cases upon cases upon cases where people are saved by seatbelts, air bags, helmets,etc. But there are also cases and cases and cases where those same "safety" devices have caused the death or injury. Those stupid auto seat belts...forget to put the lap part on..bad news. Helmets not properly strapped on...or cars with just lap belts..face meets steering wheel or dash and you're done. I've seen airbags go off on accidents they shouldn't have. Dude broke his nose while I was standing in the shop cleaning up oil right in front of me. Barely hit this cars door..he was going left..car ran red light... BARELY. Was a camery and the damn thing was barely damaged...didn't even bust the headlight. Airbag went off and busted his nose. kid was freaking out. stupid dust burned his eyes as well. I also had a friend die while wearing his seatbelt. Hit going backwards. Seat broke and he flew through the glass hatch on his firebird. hitting a wall. Died nearly 3 freakin years later. I've also had friend live because of safety equipment. One of my subaru buddies...well two of them where on a canyon run. Rear sway bar mount snapped he lost it spun off a cliff just missing the guard rail. Hit a tree about a foot in diameter..snapping it off...flipped over and fell about 40 feet onto the roof of the car. no seatbelts...someone would have died. SUV's are safe as hell...unless you're in the car they hit. It's a sad two way street. Safety equipment makes you feel safe. You let down your guard or you overextend you abilities. More severe accidents. More deaths. What could is safety equipment if your going 30mph around a corner and loose it head on into an suv full of soccer kids. Bottom line is this. We have a social responsibility when we drive. Obey the laws. Drive safely. Maintain your vehicle. Most of all be aware and courteous to other drivers. Most accidents I've been around and heard of are caused by one of two things. One person thinking the world revolves around them doing something stupid...like running a red light or cutting someone off. Or two because someone doesn't know how to handle their car, know basic laws of the road and or doesn't care. Slow freeway merges. Not giving right away. Changing lanes with no blinkers. Just idiot stuff. Simple way to change it. More difficult tests. More vehicle DRIVING training. And most important..simple mind frame changes. The world does not revolve around you. Pay attention.
Unpunkk01 What a horrific experience. That's a heartbreaking reason to bring the thread back to the top. I can't think of a more unfortunate on topic reply having been posted. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/news/feeds/0210crash.html mike
oh man..I didn't even see that. I am so sorry about that man. What a terrible deal. Godspeed to the family and friends of those 2. That just sucks. HoldFast.
I was just looking at your little site bro. Sounds like you've lost quite a few people in recent years. I am really sorry for your loss. And sorry for the families of those lost. Take care.
Sorry unpunk and plmcrazy, that's terrible. I don't care what y'all think about personal responsibility and gubbmint intrusions into private lives, you're a dope if you don't wear your seatbelts, a huge dope, ditto for the helmetless jackasses on crotchrockets with ZERO riding experience. Go ahead, force the hands of chance, you might win, you might lose. The only folks I see driving around without seatbelts usually have their seats in a totally reclined position and have some kind of shitty rap or salsa blasting out there speakers. If you wanna be macho like them, go right ahead, you're in real good company. If'n you don't want to wear seat belts, at least try to give your child a fighting chance by belting them in. I'm gonna open up a can of worms here, but the vast majority of people I see that don't buckle either themselves or their children are minorities, and I'm including my own people here. Go ahead fuck yerself up, but spare the kids....please.
I just bought 4 NOS 60's seatbelts for my Model A off ebay not 20 minutes ago because as my car nears roadworthiness I remember that my 12 year old son REFUSES to ride in a car without seatbelts. I joined the Air Force when I was 17 and they instilled the habit of buckling up that I will keep for life.
To the people who have lost family and friends, Plmczy, PeteJoe and unpunk01 my thoughts are with you. I don't have seat belts in my 31 coupe, yet. But it is high on the list to get done. But I won't go with just the lap belt. I've heard of too many spinal chord injuries to want to do that. I was looking at a Corbeau retractable harness belt at a cost of about $100 ea. http://www.rubicon4x4.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/699/products_offroad/7329
I suppose if your head is so thick that you think you don't need a seat belt, maybe you'll survive... I think the argument of state regulations and government mandates taking away your god given right to be a moron is utter bullshit. If you're already wearing the seatbelt because it is SMART, what difference does it make? Not wearing a belt just because someone says you have to is cutting your nose off to spite your face, perhaps quite literally. I've installed four shoulder belts in my '50 Plymouth, it was an easy bolt-in deal and took an afternoon. What are you waiting for, another death too close to home? If this doesn't explain it, I don't know what will. Note the G forces on a belted driver and a non belted driver. And these calcs are for 30 MPH. A 30 MPH crash without a belt will generate an impact of 150 g's when you reach your solid mounted steering column and steel dash. Or, MAYBE it's just an insurance company conspiracy... Pete Non-Stretching Seatbelt The task of the seatbelt is to stop you with the car so that your stopping distance is probably 4 or 5 times greater than if you had no seatbelt. A crash which stops the car and driver must take away all its kinetic energy, and the work-energy principle then dictates that a longer stopping distance decreases the impact force. For the example car crash scenario the stopping distance is one foot, the force on a 160 lb driver is about 4800 lb or 2.4 tons, and the deceleration about 30 g's. A moderate amount of stretch in the seatbelts will reduce the average impact force. Index Work-energy principle Car crash scenario HyperPhysics***** Mechanics [size=-1]R Nave[/size] Go Back Stretching Seatbelt A moderate amount of stretch in a seatbelt harness can extend the stopping distance and reduce the average impact force on the driver compared to a non-stretching harness. If the belt stretched 0.5 ft in the example car crash scenario, it would reduce the deceleration to 20 g's and the average impact force to 3200 lb compared to 30 g's and 4800 lb for a non-stretching seatbelt. Either a stretching or non-stretching seat belt reduces the impact force compared to no seatbelt. Index Work-energy principle Car crash scenario HyperPhysics***** Mechanics [size=-1]R Nave[/size] Go Back No Seatbelt! With no seatbelt to stop the driver with the car, the driver flies free until stopped suddenly by impact on the steering column, windshield, etc. The stopping distance is estimated to be about one fifth of that with a seatbelt, causing the average impact force to be about five times as great. The work done to stop the driver is equal to the average impact force on the driver times the distance traveled in stopping. A crash which stops the car and driver must take away all its kinetic energy, and the work-energy principle then dictates that a shorter stopping distance increases the impact force. How far will the driver fly while the car is stopping? When would you be better off not wearing your seatbelt? Example car crash scenario Index Work-energy principle Car crash scenario HyperPhysics***** Mechanics [size=-1]R Nave[/size] Go Back With no seatbelt to stop the driver with the car, the driver flies free until stopped suddenly by impact on the steering column, windshield, etc. If the distance to impact is greater than 2 ft, the car will be at rest or even bouncing back when the driver strikes it at 30 miles/hr. When would you be better off not wearing your seatbelt? Example car crash scenario Index Work-energy principle Car crash scenario HyperPhysics***** Mechanics [size=-1]R Nave[/size] Go Back
Please don't take this wrong (I truly appreciate everyones well wishes)...but I didn't revive this post for a pity party. I was hoping to possibly remind someone that just because our cars are special, that doesn't make them (or us for that matter) invincible! And as for what Nads said...amen brotha Nads!!!. It's one thing to kill yourself but to make a missle out of a 3 year old...that's just fucked up! HoldFast...yeah, it's been a little rough around here.
this is pretty much the only reason I plan to install belts in my cadi. For the safety of my passengers. I really don't feel right putting my girlfriend and other loved ones in more harm than is necessary. Myself..I've got a habit of wearing belts so I'll probably use them too. unpunk. It'll look up bro. I've lost pretty much everyone dear to me at one point in life. An orphan at 10. It gets better. Take care. I'll say a prayer for the families over the weekend that the services go well and they take things as well as expected. I say this in earnest. Godspeed.
The Jalopy Journal
