Ford 223, 1bbl carb problem (I think)

Hey there,
I've got a 59 F100, 223ci six, single 1908 (?) carb, sparkomatic/load-o-matic distributor, engine has a HEAVY bog when you tip open the throttle blades. You can get past it and rpm the engine, but the bog is so bad that the truck is un-driveable. An uphill stop sign would be the end of my travels.

So...oil bath air cleaner installed, vacuum lines all connected, but I have not measured the vacuum; plugs/wires good, all six firing, valves adjusted to .019 cold, distributor is set up properly (gap/dwell...cant recall the specs, but they were dead nuts) with new components, I get 9-11 degree swing in timing from vacuum signal, idle mix screw turned in until motor begins to stumble and backed out for highest rpm (about 1-1.5 turns).
Tried setting timing everywhere from 0-18 degs BTDC with no change
Tried summer/winter positions on acc pump, nice squirt of fuel on both, no change in symptoms..
Tried disconnecting acc pump, no change...
Tried varying idle mixture screw, no change...

Something really simple has to be causing this. Pretty sure it has low compression due to blow by but I dont think that would cause my problem. I am leaning towards the carb but dont know what to do. Opinions? I would really love to driving this thing...

 

Have you checked the fuel pump? I had the same problem with my 57 f100 with a 223 in it. Rebilt the carb and put in a new dizzy neither helped. Then I talked to my Grampa who was a mechanic back in the day and he told me It sounded like the fuel pump. I put a new one in and it fixed it right up. The old one was really bad they had a tendency to rupture the diophram and leak in to the oil pan.

 

Jay, yes. Fuel pump is brand new. It is getting adequate fuel, just bogs real bad when the throttle opens. Once you get it past the bog, you can hammer it and she'll rev out. Problem is getting past the bog. Seems worst at low rpm/off-idle...which is what makes it un-driveable. I can't let out the clutch and put a load on without stalling.

 

Check your accelerator pump for a strong stream of fuel. Anything less will result in a bog until the main jets catch up.

 

Tommy,
I get a healthy looking squirt of fuel. Not sure what would be considered adequate. Any way to increase the shooter size on these carbs?
If the main jet were too small/clogged, would the engine still rev out after getting past the bog?

 

ttt

 

ttt one last time

 

Power valve on the side of the carby or fuel pump are thw 2 most likely places to start with.

 

well I got myself a rebuild kit, includes power valve. We'll see how that goes. I'll post back my results.

 

Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I am going through the same thing on my 1957 F-100.

 

Sorry Stukks (and anyone ese wondering what happpened)....

Rebuilt carb, replaced fuel lines, cleaned/sealed gas tank, blah blah...everything new. The engine runs EXACTLY as it did before. I have a real healthy accelerator pump shot....tried adjusting the timing all over the place...no go. The engine just bogs when you lean into the throttle too fast.

Investigation on going....

 

aren't the carb and distributor supposed to be "sync'd" on Loadomatic Fords? any discrepancy in carb adjustment carries over into distributor adjustment, i thought, on these setups. hope you can get it sussed out.

 

Almost 2 yrs and still giving you trouble - that sucks. Hope you get it figured out soon.

 

is your choke stuck on/off?
vac leak? check your intake to see if its cracked or the gaskets might need replaced.
have you tried a different carb?
plug gap? plugs fouled? (momma fiddys suggestion)

 

Bogging like that usually indicates too much air for the available fuel at that time.

Also as 62Rebel suggested it may be due to a situation where the advance in the distributor isn't syncing with the action of the carb and the demands of the engine.

You rebuilt the carb or had it rebuilt but there may be something plugging one of the circuits in the carb that didn't get cleaned out during the rebuild.

Does the engine accelerate for a short distance before falling on it's face and then pick up again after you let off the gas and ease back into it? That might indicate a restriction in the fuel line that you have overlooked. A kink in a hose, smashed or twisted fuel line or the wrong brass fitting somewhere in the system that fits but has a very small orifice for fuel to flow through and wasn't intended for liquid to flow through.
Years ago I had a 327 with 2 4's on an early Corvette intake that someone had put a natural gas fitting in the fuel line to the carbs. less than a 1/8 orifice trying to feed two fours at full throttle caused it to fall flat about 50 ft out of the hole. This on may not be as severe but if you are getting the bogg about the distance off the line that it takes the float bowl to run out of gas that is where I would be looking.

 

I DO TOO! I was deployed for 9 months...still a slow project however!

Manual choke and it's not stuck. Have not checked for manifold cracks or replaced the gaskets (I will try that). This is the second carb I've had on it, fresh rebuild (by me)...I blew out every orafice when I had it apart and cleaned. Absolutely no change in performance.
Plugs foul in short order due to bad rings (blue smoke...two cylinders measured at 110psi cranking, the others are between 60 and 90psi.

Mr48, see comments within your post...

Thanks for the input guys.

 

I had to chuckle as I pieced together the chronology of this whole thing, because I have a '55 Fairlane that is exhibing the same problems! And it's been about a year now that I've tried to get things sorted out, though as with you that's not 'really' a year (wasn't exactly working on it all the time last season, and she's been away for the winter and just came back out this past Saturday). But 'glad' to see how long this may be plauging me.

Anyway, my Fairlane has a 272 with the Ford (Holley?) 2Bbl, but same type of tip-in hesitation that you're describing. I too have standard, so it definitely makes starting up from a dead stop interesting on any type of incline.

I rebuilt the carb last year, which included a new power valve. The odd thing was that for about 2 weeks the tip-in hesitation disappeared, but then came back. So....I've been told that the power valves these days that come with the rebuild kits are not always of the highest quality, and they can blow. Additionally, I don't know yet whether I have a lot of gunk coming out of my fuel tank that, while I cleaned it out of the carb, may have simply come back. I know that you said that you replaced the lines and re-sealed the tank, but I couldn't tell the order of operations that you carried out. So maybe if you did that after you rebuilt the carb gunk re-clogged the carb?? Just kind of mumbling out loud here.

I know that in my case I'm going to put an in-line filter in to see if I'm getting gunk out of the tank, and then I'm going to re-rebuild the carb. I really wish I had done it in this order in the first place, but live and learn!

But definitely don't necessarily discount that you have a bad power valve even though you rebuilt the carb. I've heard so many bad things about the ones in re-build kits that I've purchased several higher quaility ones, but unfortunately while they have the proper vacuum rating, none of them quite fit, so I'm stuck with the NAPA re-build kit version at this point.

Anyway, I've just subscribed to this thread, and am eagerly waiting to see what the fix is. Thanks 59f100 for starting it!

 

Mr. Metal, I rebuilt the carb, then replaced everything else before I even put a drop of gas in it. It's all fresh.

I cant wait for the solution either.

 

Have you tried partaly applying the choke to see if it help or makes it worse?

 

Yes, and it has a minimal effect if any at all (unless you close it all the way, then it doesn't want to run)

 

Do a google search on the Holley 1908,1904 carburators. They have been known to have economizer (power) valve problems. There is some good information on the IHC forums (IHONLYNORTH). This problem is similar to the ones mentioned in this forum. I had this problem on a friends '56 223 but I never found out what happened with his carb..... uh he had to go back to a place where he will be spending a couple of years and his meals are provided. Yeah the slammer.

 

Once past the hesitation can the truck rev up under load past say 3000 rpms?

 

Thanks for the tip. Awesome website for carb info!

Nope. It's an "anwywhere bog" that happens, regardless of RPM, when you a) put a load on it or b)lean in to the throttle too fast.

It "seems" like the main jet is not giving it any gas (I can get it to back fire out the carb on occasion too which says it's lean right?) but how do you verify that?

Would it be able to rev AT ALL if the main jet were not providing fuel? The pump shot is awesome...better than me in front of a urinal.

 

So the truck can run down the road at 4000 rpm if slowly increased to the rpm?

 

Gerrys,
No, not really....I have never got it above 10 mph....once you hit 2nd gear that is too much of a load and it will bog if you even think of accelerating. This truck BARELY will get out of its own way on a flat surface.

After reading the IH forum and getting some input from you guys...I need to check for a vacuum leak. If that turns up nothing, I need to pull the carb and inspect it again, more carefully, to see if everything is functioning, particularly the economizer valve.

 

Sounds like the coil. Had a similar problem. Even replaced the carb. New coil problem solved. Under a load could not go over 2500rpm continued to get worse.

 

It occurs to me that you might want to look at the other end. If you have a strong squirt of gas from the accelerator pump, pumping the accelerator should get you past a quick stumble.

Put a vacuum gauge on it. Try slowly raising the rpm and watch the vacuum gauge. It should stay the same or slowly climb as engine speed increases. If the vacuum drops as speed increases with no load, you may have an exhaust restriction. Mice like exhaust systems and have been known to fill up a muffler.. Muffler baffles can come loose and block the exit. I don't know what you have for an exhaust system but it might be worth a try to unhook it. If air can't get out, it can't get in. If you don't have enough vacuum, the carb won't work properly.

 

I had to reroute my fuel line away from the exhaust heat.

 

MY VOTE IS FOR "NO SPARK TIMING ADVANCE"

I have always heard 95% of fuel problems was caused by ignition AND that 95% of ignition problems was caused by fuel...

Let try this , warm the engine to operating temp , and with engine idling advance the distributor timing (advance is usually same a pull of vac unit) up a notch or two. 10-12 degrees if you have a timing light. Then drive the vehicle, if its better advance it some more .
If this solves the problem you are going to need a mechanical advance distributor !!!
I have a couple 223s that we are machining up for other customers right now.

Try it and let us know......?????

 

I know this thread is a little old, but seeing that you haven't had the truck over 10mph, I had a similar problem with my 59 f100. It ended up being the coil or condenser. I replaced them both at the same time so I'm not sure which one fixed it. Ran great as soon as I swapped them. Mine started acting the same way as you described and then died on the side of the road. It got to where it would crank up and cut off as soon as you touched the gas pedal. It's worth a try. Hope it helps!