Don't give up the ship... just yet. Pictures attached. I have three wires I have traced from the firewall to the coil. Well Two of the wires go to either side of the coil and I believe my culprit is this third wire that is just hanging out in space. Where do the three wires from the ignition go? Two to the coil and the third one goes where?? (see pictures below) I would take it to a mechanic if I could afford one, or would appreciate any local help if this is not the cause of my woes...today three wires.... mystery wire... other two wires attached to coil...
OK give ya a A for effort and not giving up. Coil should have 1 wire that goes to the dist.,the other side should have no more than 2. One of which should be from the ign. sw. and the other from the second small terminal on the starter solinoid. Do have a Ohm meter and or test light to see which wire goes where? You might remove 1 wire at a time from the coil and see what happens. You have a backfeed that is putting power to the coil with the switch off. The question is where it is at. I would remove ALL wires from the alt ,tape them up, and see what happens. This should NOT cause any problems in starting and running. If it does I would venture a guess you are pulling your power supply for the ign. sw. off one of the smaller control wires of the alt. the ones that plug in next to each other. If it starts and stops OK with the alt. disconnected re-connect 1 wire at a time and see what happens. Kinda out of ideas for trouble shooting at a distance. And remember a couple of wires that are shorted together may not make smoke and sparks but cause other weird things to happen by putting power where it should not be.
Ya know re-reading this thread I don't see where you ever replaced the actual ignition switch ,the part that the wires connect to . This correct? If you have not I think you should as is sure seems to me a likely suspect in all of this.
The white wire with the red stripe is for your oil pressure sender. Don't worry about and DO NOT feed it 12 volts. The problem can be two things. Both are common "Ford" issues. Do a Google search and you'll find plenty out there including a wiring diagram you can used to trouble shoot your issues. Your car is wired similarly to a 65-66 Mustang and there is tons of info out there. Issue #1 - Your starter solenoid could be tired/faulty and allowing the ignition bypass to stay "on" after the key is turned off. Try giving it a wrap with a screw driver handle to see if that shuts it off. On the solenoid, the "I" terminal feeds the ignition, the "S" terminal comes from the ignition switch. The second thing is that this can also be caused by the voltage regulator. If yours has an original/old style mechanical voltage regulator the points can stick on the alternator charging coil. When this happens the alternator stays energized and you can't turn the car off. An easy way to check is to unplug the "I" connection on the starter relay with the car running and key off. If it won't shut off after that, then unplug the regulator. I've also seen this happen with modern solid-state replacement voltage regulators. -Bigchief.
sounds like something is staying on to the coil not the alt ...i had this same problem i had a constant 12v to coil when key was switched to off so i found the 12v to the coil removed it and re wired it to a switched on 12v on the igniton it self ..works great.she now starts ,runs,and shuts off.
i'll have to look for the part number,but i had the same problem with a 350 a while back...bought such and such part number diode from radio shack and put it inline on the alt....workred like a charm and i asked here on the hamb and got the answer.
Ok so I took the advice of you guys and replaced the positive battery terminal, and the starter solenoid. I tested the wires with the key in the off position and found power to the solenoid. I turned the key to the on position and I have power to the alternator and to the coil on the left side where the wire runs from the starter solenoid. No power on the other side of the coil however, so I am guessing that is where power runs back t the alternator?? The mystery wire (yellow with a red stripe) is still a question. I tested it and it is hot but what does it do to. The car still will not start so I am thinking maybe the wire goes to the starter itself? I can't see the starter on the car and I have looked all over for where this mystery wire plugs into but no luck. The good news is I checked and verified that the ignition cyl is working and when I turn the key on the radio is back, and when I shut it off the radio turns off again. So that is some progress. I believe this mystery wire is the issue. Any ideas... besides take it to a mechanic??
The coil should not be in anyway shape or form be connected to the alt. The small terminal on the coil marked with a [ -] should go to the dist. period. With the key on run position pull the dist. cap and with the points blocked open with a piece of biz card with your test light/meter see if you have power to the moving part of the point set. If you do that part of things is OK. You may have to physically trace the wire from coil to the dist. to confirm nothing is tied into it. God knows what some previous owner may have done to the wiring. The car should start and run and shut off with ALL wires disconnected from the alt.
Ahh but it is connected. There are two good sized wires held on with a nut, (similar to one of the posts on the starter solenoid) located on the back of the alternator. Where it connects to the coil is via a clip on the bottom of the alternator. I think I am going to have to diagram this for everyone it may help? I am currently looking for the location of the starter?? and the voltage regulator. I know the starter is here somewhere but I just plain don't see the darn thing??!! As for the voltage regulator... I can't find that either, could that be because the generator was replaced with this alternator?? I can't figure out why she will not start now. If the old girl would run I could back trace the original issue. But noooo
One more time THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY WIRES FROM EITHER COIL TERMINAL TO THE ALT.!! If there is REMOVE the offending wire.
My advice is go get a book on your vehicle and make sure there is a wiring diagram .YOU DONT WANT TO FRY ANYTHING,
Ok I took the wire off the coil terminal as you suggested. Part of why I am here is to learn from those more experienced than I am.
I found a wiring diagram online I am trying to decode it as we speak. But yeah, I agree I need to find a book to figure all this stuff out.
Kudos on not giving up. You will probably have one of those DUH !!! moments when you find the problem.
Glad you found a wiring diagram .If you get back to where you started ,You can loop a switch into it to shut car off .Its not right but it will work ,Basically a kill switch and that is real simple to hook up.
Ok I can't get back to where I started from. I have checked the ignition cyl and all tests fine all positions have power as they should. I changed the starter solenoid and tested it, getting power from the battery. turn on the key to run position and I am getting power at the positive end of the coil. I turn the key to start the car and dead silence.... nothing happens. I still have this one wire that I just can not find out where it goes. It is hot when I turn the key to the run position and it is sitting next to the alternator (which it a one wire GM alternator, the clip on the bottom has a wire that runs up to the charging bolt on the back of the alternator that loops around with a diode in line to the positive of the coil.) See previous pictures for this mystery wire. I checked all the fuses under the dash and they are all fine... something is not engaging the stater?? Is the starter solenoid not feeding power to the starter.... and once again.... is there a stater on this car or does the starter solenoid somehow start the car? Help guys... I am at my wits end here
yes there are two wires. One runs straight to the starter solenoid, the other is the loop around wire to the plug on the bottom of the alternator, then there is a wire that runs from that plug to the positive on the coil.
Sorry for the late reply. Don't listen to the guy yelling about not having a wire to the alternator. Keyed power to the alternator energizes the field, making it work. Without keyed power, your alternator will not work correctly. Mystery wire? If it is hot when the key is on, it looks like it might go to the electric choke. Needs hot keyed power to work. If you aren't using your choke, you wouldn't notice. Tape it off to not short out for now. Get ANY rectified diode from Radio Shack that is rated at 3 amps. Splice it in the wire so that the banded end is toward the alt. The diode allows current to flow only one way. This way the alt. is energized with a keyed source, but does not feed back into the coil. You can use a high resistor or a solenoid, but a diode is much simpler and easier. Most times, the dash light is enough of a resistor to prevent a run on condition, but I like a diode. Going to work, I will add more info, but the basics is, keyed power to the coil and alternator excite wire, diode in the alt. exite wire. You should have replaced the housing, also, to eliminate the source of your problems from the start. Google it, but you should unscrew the bezel in the dash and it should fall out the back. If it's in the steering column, get a manual.
Ok the car does not have an electric choke... it uses a heat riser tube to close the choke... so your guess on the mystery wire might be correct. I did unwrap the wire from the alternator to the positive on the coil and there is a diode there. I will go get a new one from the shak tomorrow after work. I tested the housing with my test light and it checked out ok at all the keyed positions. The ignition cyl is in the dash and is a huge pain in the arse to get out!! Shouldn't I be able to just jump it with an extra battery cable or something by touching the positive on the battery to the starter solenoid?? OR will this just fry the solenoid? Will look for more input from you later and will try your fixes after work tomorrow. I really appreciate everyones advice and help on this!!!!
It's defending it's self. Ok you replaced the "tumbler" not the electrical guts. The tumbler came out and back in funny, more is wrong, open the patient.
OK, it sounds like the original problem is that the diode failed, giving you the run on condition. Replace the diode with a 3 amp rectifier diode from radio shack, just solder it in where the old one was. What a rectifier diode does is allow current to flow in only one direction, just like a flapper valve works with water. When they fail, they act like an open valve, allowing current to flow just like wire. 3 amps should be a stout enough one that will not fail for a very long time. They are cheap too, a couple of bucks. As for the no turn over, troubleshoot the solenoid. Key on, car in neutral or park. get a screwdriver or a little wire and jump from the battery positive terminal on the solenoid to the left side small terminal. That should engage the starter. With the key on, it should try to start the car. If it doesn't and all you get is a thunk sound from the solenoid or nothing, it's bad and you need to replace that. If you still have the tester, disconnect the little wire on the left terminal and have someone turn the key to start and test power from the wire that went to the solenoid to ground, you should have 12 volts. If you do and you have already replaced the solenoid if it was bad, you should be able to just hook it back up and it should be done. If it still doesn't work, you may have a neutral safety switch that failed. I didn't look to see if you mentioned you have an automatic or not. If you do, the neutral safety switch fails pretty regular for Fords. What usually happens is it will fail in neutral or in park but not both at the same time. As an aside, you could see if it starts in neutral and not park or the other way around. That will get you to work until you can replace the part. If you can start the car with the jumper from power to the left terminal but not with the key in the dash, most likely it is the neutral safety switch. Be aware that if you have a lot of corrosion on the battery cables, it will be so much resistance that it will not complete the circuit with a high current drawing item like a starter. I have actually seen a ground wire from the block to the battery that looked fine on the outside but was so corroded inside that it would not allow the car to start at all. Replaced the ground wire and it worked like a charm. Once you get the car to start, use the tester to check that your alternator is working. You should have just over 12V with the key off and just over 14V with the car running, about 1000 rpm. Although it is called a 12 volt system, the electrics are actually designed to run and function at 14.5 volts. That is actually the voltage that the battery needs to start accepting a charge. This is more important in newer vehicles that rely on stable, correct voltage to operate, but the principle is still the same in older vehicles. I will follow this thread a little better or you can pm me if you need any more help.
If that spliced wire with the green end bolted to the solenoid in the first pic that you are holding is the other end of the black or brown wire that splices to the white wire going into the alterator plug, it should not be wired to the solenoid. It should be cut loose at that end and wired back to a switched ignition source, if I am seeing things right. If that free wire that you can't indentify near the coil goes back to an idiot light ( if your car is so equiped) I would hook it there and try it. The way it is wired now it would energise the alt. all the time if that is the battery side of the solenoid it is wired to. That would also explain the wire feeling hot. Reread one of your recent posts where you described the red wire from the alternator plug to a plug on the alt. that we can't see in the pic. I think said plug is your main out for the battery out from the alt. If that is correct leave the red loop wire as is,and then that wire that goes from that same point should me taken loose from coil and hooked back to the hot post on the input side of the solenoid, so juice can feed through and charge the battery. It should be a heavier wire than the others.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in and offered much needed advice and a well needed laugh in helping me solve this issue. A special thanks goes to DIAVOLO and 440ROADRUNNER for the extra assistance and PM's to help... I could not have done this without you both! The diagnosis.... after changing out the ignition cylinder, battery cables and starter solenoid.. not to mention a 12 hour charge of the battery.... she finally starts and shuts down like normal. The mystery wire runs to the dash generator indicator light and was not part of the real issue. This is why I am here, to learn from those who know... and you guys all know your stuff. A million thanks to all.
i was looking at the pictures and noticed your one wire alt has a plug in the side and a white wire going to it. a one wire alt shouldnt have anything plugged into the side. it should only have a wire on the positive stud on the back. just sayin.
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