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I've got a cobweb paint question!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by No Plan, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. No Plan
    Joined: Nov 2, 2008
    Posts: 254

    No Plan
    Member

    Can someone please help that has done this lately!? I'm ready to paint the inside of Crazy Legs' drag bike fiberglas body for the new season. I'm going to cobweb it. I can't remember the exact recipe for cobwebbing. I think it's dark gray/flat black lacquer primer, then unthinned straight enamel (your color choice- mine's light blue) at low pressure w/ siphon feed gun, then 3 coats of clear. I can't remember if the clear is enamel, or if you use clear lacquer, now days can you use urethane for the base and clear? This covers a mulitude of sins that people aren't suppost to notice...I've used this inside of trunks, interior floor pans, & inside of fiberglass for a finished look many times, years ago, just CANNOT remember the formula (getting to freaking old). For the actual cobwebing I think I was told that you can not use urethane because it's not thick enough straight to get the effect (too thin). Please help, I know normally you can not put lacquer over enamel without bad things going on, but with this a small amount of paint, I think the clear lac just burns it in and it doesn't craze. Thanx for any help you may have!
     
  2. hotrod-Linkin
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 3,382

    hotrod-Linkin
    Member

    i always used unthinned laquer for the webbing and cleared over it with clear laquer.
     
  3. When I felt like doing some spider-webbing, I often painted the firewall or other parts with whatever color I liked, usually in enamel, then I would take "almost" unthinned lacquer and shoot it over the enamel color with high pressure as if I was shooting Silly String all over.

    I could never get unthinned lacquer to come out of my gun even with high pressure, so I would put in a tiny amount of thinner to help it along.
    Since I was not laying down a real paint layer, I did not have to worry about the usual tendency for lacquer to wrinkle the enamel paint it was being sprayed over. For me the spider webs did not have enough lacquer thinner or enough coverage to worry about it wrinkling the enamel under it.
    After a few days, I would spray a good Urethane clear over it all to protect the webbing, and make for an easy to clean paint job.

    I liked to play with the color scheme choices.
    There was one car I had just finished painting yellow. The engine was orange with a black air cleaner.
    The firewall and engine campartment was freshly painted white.

    I mixed up a couple colors in lacquer that were sort of in between the yellow body color and the orange engine color.

    One small batch was sort-of close to the yellow color, but with a slight touch of orange, while the other was sort-of closer to the orange engine with a slight touch of body-yellow in it.

    I used the yellower of the two colors to spider-web the black air cleaner on the orange engine, and used the slightly more orange color to spider-web the white firewall.

    I know it sounds strange to describe it here, but the effect was really awesome after I buried it in clear.

    It was a really cool looking engine compartment in my Yellow Submarine. Lots of compliments.

    I used enamel paint or lacquer paint for the main paint job.
    Lacquer spider webs.
    Urethane clear to cover it.

    If you use lacquer paint for the main paint job, you MUST let it air dry for at least a few weeks before you even think about putting Urethane clear over it, or the shrinking lacquer will make the paint layers easy to separate and fail early.

    If you use enamel base, lacquer spider-web, urethane top, you won't have to wait as long.

    I would like to experiment with using some enamel for the spider web. I imagine it could be done with enamel webbing somehow, but I haven't tried it that way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
    Unkl Ian likes this.
  4. P.M Gambino Customs, Alex did it on 'May cause Danerous'.
     
  5. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,299

    metalman
    Member

    I did it a few years ago by using unthinned lacquer for the cobwebs, went over urathane basecoat, sealed it with basecoat intercoat clear while I finished the rest of the paint work, then cleared with urathane clear. No problems at all.
     
  6. Most of my cobwebbing was usually unintentional but when I was actually trying to do it,I would use acrylic lacquer slightly thinned and vary the air pressure until the nozzle partially clogged.That would usually produce the best webbing.It is usually better to use a high contrast(white over black)and dark backgrounds seem to show the webbing up better.My clear of choice then was Acme Catacryl(a catalyzed clear that you could use over just about anything)layed down in 2-3 light coats about 10 minutes apart with a final wet coat.Even used this over 1-Shot and gold leaf with no problems.
     
  7. forsakenfew
    Joined: May 30, 2003
    Posts: 1,063

    forsakenfew
    Member
    from seattle

    all i remember is Harpoon seeing some OLD ass cans of laquer paint, (rootbeer, and 2 other colors) when he was spraying my car. the original paint scheme went out the window right then haha. i simply remember him shooting it straight out of the can at a super low pressure, then some candy fades, and plenty of clear. give him a PM as well with questions.
     
  8. SlowandLow63
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 5,958

    SlowandLow63
    Member
    from Central NJ

    Cool! So the lack of coverage by the actual cobwebbing, by it not being an actual layer, doesn't play the usual lacquer hell on any urethanes? So just spray it as an effect right over your base and proceed as per usual? Is that the general concencus?
     
  9. jusjunk
    Joined: Dec 3, 2004
    Posts: 3,138

    jusjunk
    BANNED
    from Michigan

    I never thinned it i just shot straight out of the can... Worked great. U can play with pressure a bit for different coverage but i really never changed things much.
    Dave
     
  10. No Plan
    Joined: Nov 2, 2008
    Posts: 254

    No Plan
    Member

    Hey! Thanks so much for the input! I'll try some of these suggestions next week! Thanks again (I knew you guys would know)!
     
  11. That's the way I see it.
    It's the lacquer thinner that eats things.
    With very little "thinner" in the unthinned paint base, and almost no paint coverage, it doesn't have the means or the ability to "eat" the paint below it or do any real damage.
    Just let the "silly string" dry very well before you cover it with clear to make sure you don't trap any solvents inside.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  12. BDK_Tinman
    Joined: Oct 18, 2008
    Posts: 10

    BDK_Tinman
    Member

    You can get the effect with less hassle using a bigger needle gun (over 3mm) and if you can lay your hands on a gravity feed putty gun you shouldn't need to thin your lacquer at all.
    There are neutral inter-coat or low-build clears available that can work as acrylic or 2K for holding pearls or candy. This is purely speculation as I haven't actually done this yet, but it would act as an isolator and seal off the lacquer so you can finish with a high solid 2K clear.
     
  13. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,323

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj

    It works best with unthinned lacquer, but I spent some time trying to get the right effect with more modern paints.
    I found that using unthinned basecoat paint, in an old siphon feed gun (modified) can do a cobweb-like job. I had to plumb in a pressure line on the vent port of the old paint gun, to "help" the basecoat along.
    So...the deal is to put a Tee on your air line, with one line to the gun, and the other to a small regulator, and from the regualtor to the top vent of the gun. Use low pressure on the gun itself, and use the regulator to help push the paint out of the gun, not a lot of pressure is needed, and the amount of pressure can affect the cobweb pattern a bit. You'll have to experiment a bit to get it right, and the effect is not quite as cool as the real lacquer type webbing, but if you can't get lacquer, it's passable.
     
    Unkl Ian likes this.
  14. Eryk
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 920

    Eryk
    Member

    Yep. Lack of coverage and lack of lacquer thinner.

    My buddy Alex did some cobwebbing in small areas on my car. All urethane clear. He kinda gave it a piss coat and let it flash before he buried it. For us, it took more than 3 coats to cover it. But I have a bunch of other shit on my car like patterns and lines. Lots of build up so more clear needed to level everything out.
     
  15. wbrw32
    Joined: Oct 27, 2007
    Posts: 7,314

    wbrw32
    Member

    There are also special "veiling" guns available just for this purpose
     
  16. Eryk
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 920

    Eryk
    Member

    Yes and no. You can indeed cobweb with a veiling gun, but thats not necessarily its purpose. The veiling technique is something completely different and unique from cobwebbing. Initially it was used to spray textured patterns on lamps shades and things of that nature in the 60's. A veiling gun, when used correctly, produces continuous circles. It was often used in single passes or built up by overlapping the circles. You could move the gun around to make them more "squigly". My grandpa had one. He said it never worked right and he didnt like it. But he did some cool stuff with it. I wish he kept it.

    Here's a trike that my grandpa did in the early 70's using his veiling gun. He filled the panels with it. But if you look closely, its not just random like cobwebbing. The stream is s continuous circle pattern.
    [​IMG]

    Walt Prey used tons of it on both versions of Gypsy rose. Again, notice the circular pattern, especially on the body line above the door handle.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's a car that Larry Watson did in the late 60's. He used a custom made, dual nozzle, dual canister gun that he got from the Binks rep. He said he told the guy what he wanted to do and gave him the idea and Binks built it just for him. Pretty cool stuff. The pattern on this car is a little less uniform, but still considered veiling.
    [​IMG]
    Here's Larry's custom, 2 headed veiling gun.
    [​IMG]


    If you want to see some true veiling up close, come to Primer Nats later this year. I might have a little something.:cool:
     
  17. RodP
    Joined: Mar 24, 2007
    Posts: 331

    RodP
    Member

    Here's a couple of custom aircaps that are supposed to fit a Devilbiss MBC gun. The middle picture is a veiling cap that was designed to be used with a pressure pot and a MBC gun. The other cap was used for blending and fading. It produced a round pattern and you could adjust the size.
    I have had these for many years (sixties). Really didn't use them much. When I got them I was told they were experimental and they were not being sold to regular car painters. They may have been designed for industrial painters (inside fiberglass outhouses and boats). I don't know if they were ever sold over the counter. I will see if I can dig up one of my old MBC guns and rig it up to get a picture of the setup.
    I preferred the cobweb effect, and for that I used my Devilbiss JGA with a #30 cap. I used to spray it up in the air above the surface and let it float down. I could string it out that way and the cobwebs weren't as tight and close together.
    I won't try spraying any paint through these. I remember the paint was so thick it took at least a gallon of lac thinner to clean up my pressure pot after a cobweb job. Today it's not worth the cost just to play around.
    Watson told me he used to use a special veiling paint that was different than the unthinned acrylic lacquer we used for cobwebs.
    RodP
     

    Attached Files:

    Unkl Ian likes this.
  18. Eryk
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 920

    Eryk
    Member

    Wow, Rod. Those are cool! Thanks for posting those. I wonder what that special veiling paint was. I'm going to ask him more about it.

    And by the way, thanks for the endless inspiration you've given me and others through the years. Not to sound cliche, but you really are one of my heros. Juan keeps telling me to come up and visit and he would take me to meet you. One of these days. :)
     

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