When you weld up to a corner, cosmetically you risk blowing the corner off. There is also a structural reason for not doing it... When building an NHRA-approved frame with gussets, the gussets are only welded on the sides... the fillet never wraps around the ends. Welding all the way to the end creates a stress point because it concentrates the full load (that would have been held by the gusset) on the very tip of that weld.
Appreciate the input. Wouldn't the strongest weld have been to fully weld the spoke in . . . 360 degrees? Obviously they're not doing this due to their chrome and ***embly techniques. I'm not a certified welder or NHRA ch***is expert (so bear with me!), but in your case above, they want to distribute the load along the pipe and the weld, and not create a situation where the weak point has been transferred to the pipe location where the gusset ends (just moved out from the joint). I'm not sure the same applies to this type of joint -- as you're probably not worried about the outside rim breaking (like you are the chrome moly tube on the ch***is) . . . you're worried about the center spokes coming loose as they're transferring the load from the axle to the rim, to the tire. The NHRA boys are probably doing a full structural ****ysis and 3D simulation . . . would be interesting to have a 3D model of this wheel and apply the same load/structural ****ysis. My guess is that it would still be stronger with a full 360 degree weld . . . but again, just thinking out loud and not based on formal welding education! Though I'm sure there are other key factors like material, pre-heat, post-heat, etc.. Any input from guys that do this for a living and know a lot more than I do (which isn't much)
The spokes on this wheel aren't welded front and back, it is cast as a full interior ring and then welded on the back only. If you look at the wheel on the front there is a lip that is actually the center ring portion, this wheel is a better desisg by far.
Back in the 80's I had a customer come in with what he thought was a blown posi, so he bought a new one and had us install it. when he came to pick it up he went out and pulled a burnout only one tire spun, I was on the p***enger side of the car and watched the center of the wheel spin while the outer stayed still. They were Keystone Kl***ics similer type of setup but they were blocks welded to the outer shell, never saw another in 39 yrs of doing this until now
And the reason for that is that plating does not like to settle in corners or undercuts. To have the look of a supreme you need to polish and plate the individual parts and then weld them together. To plate the wheel after welding would require a very expensive set of anodes that follow the spokes and the cost of plating would be so high that nobody would buy them. Supremes were always inexpensive wheels and designed as such. Here in LA you can buy a set of Supremes with pinstripe whitewalls mounted and balanced for $500.00
This makes sense, but two things: If you look at the back of my wheels, everything including the weld beads and splatter is plated, unpolished, and the same uniform color. I have welded to chrome parts before, and whenever I have done so with MIG or arc, there is blueing and discoloration to the plating even if the weld is very brief and the penetration is not so good. These are burned in deep at the spokes, how did they do that without discoloring the chrome? -KK
Gooz, glad you are ok man! That is scary. I bought a set of old Supremes, and luckily they didn't fit right so I sold them. Looking at the pics, mine were the same as yours, and boy am I glad I sold them now!
Here are a couple of pics of a brand new set of U.S. Wheel 'Supremes' bought from Summit racing - and when I say new I mean the UPS man just dropped them off. You can see the re-enforcing plate at the outer edge of the spokes.
In that case they're wrong. Sounds like nascar came up with that half***ed rule. The correct way is to wrap around the end otherwise you may as well use duct tape instead of welding it... & seeing as I'm allowed to weld on aircraft structures including tubular airframes with & without gusseting, I may just have a clue what I'm doing.
I purchased them from "Newstalgia" Thanx! Supremes were always inexpensive wheels and designed as such. Here in LA you can buy a set of Supremes with pinstripe whitewalls mounted and balanced for $500.00 Where??
That was my understanding -- at least from the experienced and certified guys I know. I've always heard that if you don't wrap the weld (complete it), that the joint is much weaker. I know that I will continue to weld all my gussets the full length whenever possible and I'll wrap the weld around the end. (and I use them a lot on frames - because I like em!) With that said - I'm sure there are certain situations where finite element ****ysis, destructive testing and failure ****ysis has resulted in specialized techniques being used for certain cases. Maybe there are certain cases where they actually want more 'flex' in the frame . . . don't know???
Way back a friend of mine used to use those with 5.20s and kept cracking them on an early Chevy. He switched out to CRAGARS and never had the problem again. he also saw my 17x9.5 & 17x11 TORQUE THRUST II's and thought they were Supremes. So, I also rolled out a set of real 14x8 TORQUE THRUST D's from the 60s and told him these were the "real deal" and not the cheaper Supremes.
Yeah. But the positioning of the centers on Gooz's wheels were suspect too. They were way too far out and didnt fit flush with the surface of the wheel. Not only was there a gap between the spokes and wheel surface, but the spokes couldn't have been properly welded anyways. The front of the spokes almost hang over the step in the wheel. Scary ****. Those things were sketchy. Herdez, I like your salsa. But only the "Casera" kind. Your original style is too watery. Your medium and hot variations are spot on. But I think you should ditch the mild. It tastes more like pico de gallo. Just some feedback from a loyal customer. Keep doin your thang.
Dave, . Just thought I'd post these pics for those of who are second guessing Supremes all together. Yeah, the urban legends of them coming apart might have some truth to them. I think Gooz's case was freakish. But they are not all created equal and many people have been running them for years and years with no problems at all. Even been in accidents and not have them come apart. These look like the US Wheel version that Esajian and others were selling for years. Same cap anyway. No pic of the backside, sorry. My buddy Freddie posted these over on our board.
i took a look at my wheels and noticed they are made differently...my first set that i got have the reinforcing plate welded to them but the spokes themselves are not welded..(1st pic)...this other supreme i have has the spokes welded but there are no reinforcing plates...the center section is welded differently and better than the 1st..it is made in the USA...the first rim has no markings on it.....Also like Bored & Stroked said wrapping your weld around the gusset makes the weld much stronger which is true...at least thats what my structural welding code book says...and Jack Compton..!
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