Rant: If you're too stupid to put the distributor in the hole correctly...

The rotor always turns opposite of the way the vacuum advance points. Does that make any sense? I haven't had coffee yet.
Larry T

 

Getting it roughed in enough to run, I agree. But when he's timing the IHC, he does need to use #8, as that one coincides with where the timing marks are on the damper. So you're right, 'cept for the comment about "It don't matter."

 

An easier way to look at it is how my old shop teacher told me. Look at the vacuum advance. see what side it is on. Put your palm on that side and point your finger around the cap. That's the rotation.

 

In Auto class in high school (35 years ago), our final exam was for the shop teacher to hand the loose distributor with the wires hanging down to the student, have the student put it in the mid-60's Chevy 6 cylinder on the engine stand and get the engine running. If you got it running in under 3 minutes you got an "A". Under 4 minutes--"B". Under 5 minutes--"C. You get the picture...

The first four guys couldn't even get the engine running! Then the gearhead with the '70 Nova big block stepped up to the engine. Now we'll see! He couldn't get the engine to fire a lick! By now everyone figured there was something else wrong with the engine.

It took the whole two hours to get through the entire class and I was last. No one had gotten the engine to run! I had swapped a similar engine into my old pickup and had removed and replaced the distributor several times. I was handed the loose distributor and wires--I laid it down and put my finger over the spark plug hole on Number 1 to find compression--stabbed the distributor in, slightly pressing down on the rotating shaft. Clunk! It went right it. I found where the rotor was pointing, ran the wires and guess what?

It fired on the third rotation. 2 minutes and 20 seconds... I found out later that the gearhead was really mad! Yeah! 1 "A"--21 "F"'s

Rockettruck...

 

i dont trust timing tabs, I tipically pull the valve cover, rotate the engine and watch the intake valve cylinder one open, and close, then I verifly with a long pencile that the piston is at tdc.

 

Wait until you can do all fords. Hell chevy's are easy
18 too young
43 in the prime
65 too old
72 out of time

302's have two firing orders and if you dont know what year it is your in trouble.never trust the balancer, they do slip over time. Always bring the piston to tdc, pull the valve cover and make sure the valves are closed and when you turn it over the exhaust valve starts to open. Never fails and all of mine start and run with minimum adjustment.

 

Thanks!! I forgot that little detail!

 

Best "Tuneup Tip" in this whole thread! We must have all had the same auto shop instructors.

As stated before, an engine can be made to run with the distributor dropped in anywhere, with the the plug wires clocked to accomodate it. IF...

• ...the plug wires are long enough to reach the cap and plugs.
• ...you can reroute the wires without them laying on the exhaust manifold or getting snarled in the throttle linkage.
• ...you can set the timing properly without the vacuum advance cannister mashed up against the intake manifold or the firewall.

I'd say the main reason to install the distributor and the plug wires the right way is to show that you know how to do the job the right way and you care enough to do the job the right way.

 

It don’t matter where the rotor is pointing when you drop the distributor in. Pick a spark plug, any spark plug. Call it any number you want. Put that piston up in position for firing. The wire hole in the distributor that the rotor finger is pointing at is that one. All the rest come in order sequence, direction of rotation. That's not "roughed in enough to run" it's gold. The timing marks on the damper are still good, you can't move that unless you cut a new keyway in the crankshaft.

 

Maybe not where the rotor points, but on some of the early V-8 Chevys, the lifters don't oil right if the distributor body isn't clocked the way it's supposed to be. There is an oil channel half way around the distributor and if it doesn't line up-no oil. They cut the channel all the way around on later distributors. I'd have to do some checking to see what year they changed.
Just something to think about if you're playing with early Chevy distributors.
Larry T

 

As it goes on the hamb, post a fact and you'll get ten people that don't have a clue disagree with it. This will be my last post on this thread.

Really, the implication by the OP is insulting to those of us that understand how a distributor works and can time one on the fly without being anal about which plug wire socket in the distributor cap the rotor is pointing to. Rotor orientation is irrelevent in getting a motor timed properly. See the other posts to see how that can be done, if you care..........

Larry T; The clocking of the distributor body isn't affected by changing the orientation of the rotor..............

 

There is doing it and then there is doing it right. Doing it right means that the guy following you won't be cussing you and bitching about the sob who worked on the car last or the P/O who didn't know what the hell he was doing. I've followed behind too many with that kind of thinking and it was a pain in the ass every time.


when I was teaching auto mechanics we had a 289 Ford engine in a Test stand that I would have the kids pull the distributor out, pull the wires out, knock the points out of adjustment and spin the engine and then a pair of them had to put the engine in time, drop in the distributor, set the points and wire it and fire it. Several pairs got to where they could do it in under a minute and a half.

 

I know that, but if you're just dropping the distributor in and wiring it you're probably not real concerned with clocking the housing either.
Larry T

 

The difference between the novice and the expert is that the expert has made more mistakes. I feel I've made enough mistakes to reach expert status but, sadly, that is not the case

I've swapped out distributors maybe four or five times in the last forty years, infrequently enough that I have to study the process each time.

My hotrod truck, Deerslayer, has developed a cold engine miss that has been getting worse. This week it's starting to feel like I'll be left on the side of the road soon. Started out with vacuum checks on tuesday nite. No joy. The engine is a GMC 302 inline six. Last nite I decided to swap out the early eighties Chevie 2.8L v6 HEI ignition system for the original points ignition.

Took me two hours to hook up the ballast resistor, pull and re-gap the plugs, change coils and distributors and re-wire things. That was record time for a slow guy like me in mostly unfamilar waters. I was rewarded with a mighty roar on startup and after hooking up the timing light and dwell/tach, finding no further adjustments necessary.

I mostly didn't have trouble because the previous owner (known here on the HAMB as "Truckedup") gave me precise instructions via e-mail when I first put the HEI in a year ago. If I had been stuck with the same unknown conditions as the original poster of this thread, I'd still be working on it a month from now and I'd probably be a little pissed too, at the guy who put me into the fix and at myself for not figuring it out sooner.

 

I once worked like 29Nash, throw the dist in, line up the wires with the rotor and off to the races. As I received formal training and worked as a mechanic for wages then I changed. As Mr48chev says

If the mechanic following has to figure out what was done, wether it works or not, is wasting time. That is probably the reason this thread got started.

If your only working on your own rig then do what you want to do or whatever works. However if your working on someone elses rig wether for fun or for hire then you have to rise to the professional level and follow the standards of the industry.

lg
no neat sig line

 

Bub, I don't have to imagine it. I remember it.

 

If you can't put #1 at TDC, sell the car and take up something a little more your style, like knitting. If you can get it to TDC, drop the distributor in and the rotor is pointing at #1 (no matter which way its pointing!!!). On a SBC, moving in a clock-wise direction just follow the firing order. 18436572. The car will start if the timing is off 20 degrees either way (advanced or retarded). Next draw a vertical line of the distributor right where it meets the block.
With the engine running, turn the distributor clockwise until it starts to really stumble. Notice where that little line you drew is pointing (make a mark on the block) now turn the distributor counter clockwise until it starts to stumble and make another mark on the block. That little line you drew on the distibutor, put it right between the two lines on the block. Done deal!!!!

 

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by 29nash
Larry T; The clocking of the distributor body isn't affected by changing the orientation of the rotor..............
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I know that, but if you're just dropping the distributor in and wiring it you're probably not real concerned with clocking the housing either.
Larry T


He's not concerned about many things.

When all you work on is your own stuff, and you know what shadetree stuff you did, it makes it a whole lot easier to work on.

When you do it for a living, you get posts such as this one.
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I hate buying a car from someone and having to undo all the po-dunk stupid assed shade tree shit. I know exactly where the op is coming from.
There is a right way and a wrong way to do shit. Moving your plug wires one over on the cap is a dipshit move. So is timing by ear.

 

Insulting, huh? I guess it might be if you just like to rough things in enough to run, but those of us that actually enjoy tuning the engine's timing with that pesky timing mark on the damper find it annoying as hell. I'm sure you're probably good enough to time an engine by ear, but I prefer to actually KNOW where the engine is while timing it, and KNOW where the engine is going to be at 3,000rpm.

It's also annoying as hell when someone decides not to do it right the first time, and then fucks it up further down the road because they're doing it their way. For instance, it turned out that on the wife's Corvair, once the distributor was dropped in out of sequences, someone decided to just move the plug wires over to make it run right... only they must have gotten side-tracked mid-project, because they didn't move two of them. So I drove the car all over Kingdom Come with two cylinders misfiring, thinking the problem was fuel delivery.

Once I fixed this mistake, the engine runs like a sewing machine and oil consumption has been nearly eliminated.

With the other car, a '73 Duster with California smog on it, the wires couldn't be moved far enough because there's a lock-out on the base of the distributor that won't let you turn the distributor more than 6 degrees total movement.

But you're right... it shouldn't matter for those that understand how a distributor works. Except it does.

-Brad

 

One thing to say for putting the distributor in EXACTLY the same way every time (and the way they do it frome the factory is as good as any, unless you run into some weird problem like I did on the hemi above) is repeatability. Since this is how I make my living and I probably stab a distributor 3 or 4 times a month, I know that if your on TDC and the rotor is here and the number 1 plug wire is here it's gonna fire unless you have some other problems. I also know, on all of the cars that I've built the engines, how everything should look at a glance. If it's wired someother way, it takes a little time to trace everything out. So the time you saved by just dropping the distributor in and then finding TDC (how much more time does it take to find TDC first and then drop the distributor in??) is lost in troubleshooting. One other thing is plug wire length. If you custom build them to fit right with number 1 in one position on the cap, they aren't gonna fit right with number in some other position.
As far as using a timing light, you kinda need to know where you start if you're tuning for maximum performance. If you have the timing set, change it and then figure out it doesn't run as well, how are you going to be able to set it back where it was if you don't have a baseline. There is a reason that most successful racers have a log book and log every change they make to their car.
Larry T

 

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Ebbsspeed
Getting it roughed in enough to run, I agree. But when he's timing the IHC, he does need to use #8, as that one coincides with where the timing marks are on the damper. So you're right, 'cept for the comment about "It don't matter."
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Like I said before, I agree, EXCEPT that on the IHC you DO need to connect your timing light to the #8 plug wire (wherever that happens to end up on the distributor cap towers) in order for the timing mark to do you any good. Otherwise it will be fools gold.......

 

I get it. bought a 65 Impala recently, decent driver, has some issues. 327 with distributor seized in the block, tried WD40, PB Blaster, trans fluid and acetone, wont budge. Bitch of it is its off a tooth, cant get it to time correctly to a light. I can get it to run decent but what a pain in the ass. some jack off put the dist in wrong 20 yrs ago and now its hopelessly stuck. I can time it to run or pull the engine and break the distributor out, might as well rering and bearing it at that point.

 

[

Which cylinder on a SBC is at TDC on the power stroke when the cam and crank gear timing marks are aligned?[/QUOTE] #6

 

#6[/QUOTE]


Number 1 is TDC/power stroke when both dots are straight up. Some service manuals show this way to install the timing gears and chain.
Larry T

 

You might try breaking the intake manifold loose and see if that helps. It could be wedged in there from misalignment from the factory machining process. After years and years, things move a little, and the hole in the intake could be misaligned from the bore in the block, and the distributor is binding. It could have been a really close fit, and the previous owner torqued the intake down out of sequence and warped it.

Lamar Walden has a cracked steel distributor housing at his place from exactly that... the old style cast steel housing with the oil port on the side. It's snapped clean in half. (But the car ran!)

-Brad

 

Stude trucks are cool - I've had one since 1979.

On that distributor rant. I bought a 66 Mustang and the distributor was pounded into place. Had to use a slide hammer to get it out.

...MJW

 

Wait until you rebuild a 283 Chevy and find out the Cam can go in either direction. Rebuilt a motor in High School some Smart Ass took the dowl pins out of the cam and put them in the other end. We spent the summer trying to get this thing to run. POP, BANG, POP, BANG. Asked a neighbour that raced Stock Cars. He laughed and told us what was up. We tore down the motor turned the cam around,assembled, set-up and gee's it ran.
Started to help him out with his race car. (Body Work) the rest is History.
34 years later.

The Old TInbasher

 

How did it drive the fuel pump & distributor?
Larry T

 

what Larry T said.