high rev: is there a way?

is there a way to make a 350 rev higher than 7000? with out having to pick up the pieces?

 

Destroke it with a smaller crank?

 

At what RPM does your cam and intake make its peak HP?

 

destroke it. Or put a good oil pump on it, some good valve springs, forged pistons, a solid cam, and good pushrods and pray.

I have the above but with a hydro cam and i hit 6000 every once in a while.

The trick is to make it pull to 7k. That i dont know.

 

Add more nickel and chromium to the block when you cast it like Ford did with the successful 302/5.0.

- Or add more metal to the internal webbing in order to add m*** (not usually releasable, this negates building a light weight economical yet sturdy block while keeping things like cylinder walls thin enough to exchange heat quickly to the water p***ages))


The extra teas**** of nickel costs companies money but pays off in the long run in many different areas.

Machinability, Wear and Strength are some of the benefits.


Wear: Rings and cylinder walls that last longer and hold their oil better.
Strength: Internal webbing that makes the block stronger without adding weight and/or excessive m***.
Machinability: Holding closer tolerances when it comes to machining the block

These are all things that the 25 cents worth of chrome/nickel make when you cast a block.





If your serious about making hp while revving the peas out of it then opt for a better (aftermarket?) block to start with. -Find a 350 made that was not made by the accountants at GM.


jmho



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That is irrelevant to how strong the parts of or inside the block are or as to whether they hold together at high rpm.


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steel crank
aluminum rods
forged pistons
rotating ***embly balanced to perfection
***anium locks and keepers
the best bee hive valve springs you can get your hands on
one piece valves
best push rods you can get your hands on

 

It's been done for years - HP and RPMs are just a matter of cubic dollars!

 

True. But I was going to point out that going beyond peak hp/rpm is pointless.

 

i would do it with a 377 if i was gunna go that high

 

The '69 Chevy 4-bolt main DZ 302 blocks were casted with high nickel and chromium content. The perfect block for that high zzzing factor. That and the '69 3.00" stroke forged steel crankshaft would be a good place to start.

 

I think that what Greezy is trying to say (at least in part) is.....why? So you can tell everyone that your 350 will hit eight grand? If that's the case, just lie and tell them that it does already---it's much cheaper. A street engine of 350 cubic inches can make lots of power without having to resort to high rpm, and I don't care where you're running it---the higher the tach climbs, the more $$$$ it takes to put it there.

 

Well said!!

 

Destroking is probably the right answer. Back in the day it was not uncommon to run a small block at 8-9,500 rpm. Those were stock rod material,stock crank material, stock blocks engines with forged pistons. What was important was that they be steel rods and cranks from the vette engines. Every part was carefully checked and the parts carefully clearanced. Maintenance was equally important. Rod bearing life wasn't bad, but the main caps danced and the bearings took a big beating. A couple weeks was about all you could go without changing them. Cams were solid rollers complete with rev kits.

The only major failure we had was when a 301 (3x4) pulled out the front bearing web and broke the crank in half. Even then the rods didn't break, they bent at darn near 90 degrees! It deserved to go. The day before I had gotten sideways in first and had to stay on it til I got it straight. It probably hit over 10,000 that day.

RPM without power is not the answer though. Todays cams are much better at making power at lower rpms and todays heads flow much better too. There are still some great RPM turners though. Find Gene Schwart's car on YouTube and listen to Gene rev it. That's the way it was back then. Free rev to 9,000 and then drop the hammer. That sound is still sweet. Just watch everyone at the nostalgia drags crowd to the fence when Gene comes to the line.

 

That's easy. Throw lots of money at it.

I'd like to know why. That's the real question.

 

Thanks Heathen thats exactly what I was getting at.

 

I used to get relatively mild stock car 350s to go 7K. Between the gearing, solid cam and sheer luck, they always held together. With hydraulic lifters (poor man's rev-limiters) they fall on their face fast.

Bob

 

Greezy,

You can select and purchase the best and most expensive parts in a search to make hp at rpm but all those good parts and all that money will quickly fly away when you scrimp on the basis of your build,

-the block.

Find the block that is going to take the abuse and then throw your money into it.

And as others have pointed out, those blocks are out there in either stock (or aftermarket) form.......

Conversely,
BS'ing your way around the track, the forum or the garage tour group will only win you a lack of credibility and/or respect. jmho





Good luck in your engine build and hope to see you at the track (but hope I win ).




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Yep,
just depends on the technology you use. 500 cu. in. prostock engines routinely turn 10,000+ rpms with a 3.50 stroke crank. When was the last time you saw one of them blow up?
Larry T

 

Destroking makes it smaller than 350ci. It will take some cash to make one that will rev to over 7K and be somewhat reliable. Strong lightweight parts are the key.

Or if we take your question literally, you could just leave the pieces lay where they come to rest. That way you don't have to pick them up. It's likely that those who witness the event will pick them up for you.

Unless.....





Back in the 70's I had a 350 Honda Scrambler that was factory red-lined on the tach at 9250, but somehow I don't think that's the kind of 350 you're asking about......

 

I'm not much of a chevy guy but I have build many high winding fords. The first thing, figure out what the weakest link is, and improve it. I figure if your going to rebuild it, it may be the rods on your chevy??? Perhaps someone could help me out on this? Anyhow, you need to flow enough air in and out to get it to wind high. Remember the three Cs? Cam Carb and Compression? You need those. And you need heads that will flow the numbers to make power at those rpm levels.

This is what you need... Heads that flow enough to support your rpm for your CID of your engine. A cam for that RPM, Intake and carb for that RPM... I've seen low compression engine spin these rpm but they were pretty anemic at low rpm.

A smaller destroked engine can get by with wimpy heads since you have less CID to fill, but a optimized 283 at 7000 will make less power than an optimized 410 at 7000.

 

Back in the 1980's Nascar Chevy engines were still real 350 Chevy blocks and ran 8000 rpm for hours on end with aftermarket rods and crank.A trip to your local circle track will still find that sort of engine.

 

Build it like an outboard boat engine......ROLLER BEARINGS!!!!!
Seriously, the rod, main, and cam bearings replaced with roller (or needle) bearings will make one turn till the cows come home!
BUT, you gotta dig DEEP in your pocket to get a block setup for roller bearings!

Check out this article from Hot Rod Mag:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/bonneville_bow_tie_block_needle_bearings_install/index.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-s-0Ce-OaM

Just ask Gene Schwartz - 10,000 RPM on his small block, nash 5 speed, I've seen his tach play it back

 

Maybe not,Formula one engines turn near 18,000 rpm,do they have roller bearings? Typical 600 cc Jap crotch rockets turn 14,000 rpm,do they have roller bearing cranks? I don't know,that's why I'm asking.

 

Guy at work has a 377" small block with twin turbos. Drag car, makes around 2500HP, turns it close to 9000.
NASCAR boys turn em at 9500 on the short tracks.

 

a good set of valve springs and a cam with a duration @ 50 of about 280+


or as tony said , set the tach on 4 cyl.

 

This is truth.

Something to consider is that once you destroke it it is no longer a 350. Unless you go the short stroke 350 route. Large Journal 327 crank in a .030 over 400 block.

Lighten the devil out of it, do major head work, get a cam that will **** enough air and induction to go with it. Blah Blah..

One trick block wise is to take a 2 bolt block and add 4 bolt caps to it. The 2 bolt block has heavier webs. If you're going to spin into the upper RPM range it has to be align bored anyway or at least should be and the cost difference of the 2 bolt block over the 4 bolt block will offset the cost of the caps.

 

One other thing to consider is that most V-8's have a power range of between 3 and 4 thousand rpms. So an engine that makes power to 7500 is probably gonna make less power than a stocker below 4500 rpms. Where does your engine spend most of it's time?
Larry T

 

Outstanding !!!!!

That is how my father used to run his 68 camaro at Union Grove / Byron. It was a built 350 (1970 LT1 vette block), .030 over, Mickey Thompson aluminum rods, steel crank, Trw pistons, 12.5 or 13.5 to 1. He ran it in the early 70's. He came out of the hole at 7k and shifted at 9.5k. That is how the story goes. He still has the motor and somewhere there is 8mm tape he wants to get on cd somehow.