Is it true about electric waterpumps

Just wondering is it true you can gain 20 hp from an electric waterpump .Even if it has a provision for a fan......

 

I've heard of as much as 13hp gain using an electric pump on a ZO6, but that's in the 480hp range.

 

And 30 from a muffler change.

 

Actually, you do create a power increase by ridding your engine of a generic water pump. Not sure that anyone can estimate the rate of gain without a dyno, but it does take engine power to turn the pump. All engine accessories take power to run.
It has been said that when turned off, a toggle switch on the alternator "field" increases power. Not sure. Others will chime in.
Not quite on the subject, but sorta....
Many years ago, Aston-Martin ran a six cylinder on a dyno with a wet sump (oil slashing the oil around) versus a dry sump system on the same engine.
Wet sump = 255 bhp
Dry sump = 278 bhp

 

My dad saw an adverti*****t on 20 hp gain from an electric waterpump .I was wondering if its true ,Or just numbers ************ .On a 4 banger this would be alot of hp.I also know certain valuables would also exist ,I also know switching to an electric fuel pump will create more hp .But as stated above an alternator would rob power .I think the numbers are too high ........

 

Anything you do to make the rotating ***embly turn easier creates more HP . How much more depends on many things but all add up in the end ! Only a Dyno test will tell you the real gain in HP .

retro Jim

 

How much power do you think a single plain ordinary fan belt can transmit before it slips, breaks, or smokes?
5Hp, 20Hp, 100Hp ?

And if your fan belt reliably lasts for many years, it cannot be working all that hard.
Think about it.

 

On my old SBC powered street come drag car we picked up 22 rwhp by changing to an electric water pump,, electric fuel pump and dropping of the altenator. Just had to make sure the battery was fully charged and all was good.

 

Years ago when I first started drag racing I just couldnt get my car to run in the 12s no matter what I tried. One day near the end of the quarter I pitched the alternator belt and ran an instant 12.90 quarter. I think it even picked up at least 1 or 2 mph. I cant tell how many hp I gained but I know it helped. I would say at least 10hp but I quit pulling the alternator too.

 

Like I said anything you do to the rotating ***embly to lessen the resistance will give you more HP . Another old trick was in the final race if you got there was you would take and drain out 2-3 qts of oil depending on the size of the oil pan so that the crank doesn't hit any oil in the pan as the crank turns to pick up more HP . Worked and didn't hurt the engine at all . The engine was only running for about a 1/2 min of run time till the end of the track anyway .
That was used in the 1960's & 70's by some people I know plus me !
You just have to lighten and give less resistance to the rotating ***embly to get some more of that precious HP !

Retro Jim

 

no, they wont put out on the first date.

 

I run an electric water pump on my S10.406 sbc.Runs 11.46 on the engine at 119mph.I have a 150 shot of NOS but I never used it,should go in the high 10's.I still run an alternator,since I drive it on the street.Even with an alternator there is still a gain by not having to run a water pump with the belt.I don't think there is a 20 horse gain.But like what was said before the more you free up, the power you are going to make.

 

I think the 20hp claim may be optomistic, but electric water pumps do help to free up a little hp. Some theory on it: reducing rotating weight rotating at engine speed is 15x as effective as reducing static weight (drivetrain speed is 5x, wheel speed is 3x), "supposedly" the amount of power required to spin a generic water pump is higher than the load increased on the alternator from the electric motor used on an electric water pump. Also, turn all the electric **** off in your car to reduce the load on the alternator as much as possible when you need the power. If they didn't help, there wouldn't be that many on race cars-and they are on all kinds of race cars. But the real question is, is that little bit of horsepower really worth the extra money?

 

hell yes

 

I have a set of ***anium wheel nuts to sell you. Only $1,980.00 for a set of ten. It is guaranteed to make your car lighter than with the original low performance factory steel wheel nuts. They even have aerodynamic domes on top to reduce aerodynamic drag.

Back to back tests have proven, quarter mile ETs are reduced by .0000000000001 of a second. A real bargain.

A much cheaper way to save weight is to drain all the fluids from your car. Run the sump, gearbox, diff and radiator completely dry.

A very famous drag racer picked up 0.0083 seconds and 1.032 MPH doing this. And it can work for you too.
Highly recommended if you really want to push your expensive race motor to the absolute limit.

 

Apparently you have never been drag racing ^^^^^^.

There are gains from using an electric water pump but it depends on the engine it is used on how big the gains will be.

Let other have said simply make one run all hooked up then run without a fan belt and I personally have had great improvements of anywhere between .2 and .5 seconds improvement.

Running a switch to "open" the fields in the alternator works it you have to run a fan belt personally observed gains of .2-.3 seconds.

Don't knock something until or unless you have tried it.

For your edification just go to http://cl***racer.com/cl***forum/index.php or any other NHRA drag racing site and search cl*** winners and after days of searching cl***es where one has the choice of running an electric water pump or a stock one and if you happen to find one cl*** record holder in some obscure cl*** that is still running a stock pump ask him why and I'm 100% sure he will say because they don't make an electric pump for my engine.

All the rest will be running an electric water pump for the reason it frees up available horsepower and the cars run faster.

 

Some are mixing apples with oranges; Running a pump and alternator of equal capacity, concurrently, there can be no hp gain. If an alternator of suffieient capacity to balance the current used by the electric water pump is used, one will balance the other.

In short spurts, as with drag racing, an immediate gain is obvious, where the electric water pump drains more current than an alternator can keep up with. Therefore, with a pump that pulls more current than the alternator, long term constant use the battery will drain the battery. In a practical sense one could not run all day without the battery being depleted. At some point the electric water pump would have to be shut down, or the vehicle would have to stop for a battery swap, or recharge from an external source.

 

It probably says, "up to 20hp gain".... But like you even said yourself, there are a lot of other variables. Is it worth it? That's up to you, but I doubt it will be something you feel in the seat of your pants while driving.

 

Yes, it will add power.
One thing I didn't see here... an electric water pump runs at a constant speed, rather than changing with engine speed. So, perpetual motion? no. As the water pump turns faster it uses more power, and at a certain point the increased flow has little effect on cooling, and beyond that greatly reduces cooling. The electric pump runs at an "optimal" speed regardless of engine speed, using less electric power than a mechanical pump would.
So the power gains are based on a percentage of what you are doing. On a 4cyl for example, you're not going to gain as much HP as a blown SBC - or on a blown SBC at 4500 rpm wont gain as much as the same engine at 8500rpm. It all depends on what you are doing. Simply slowing down the alt and water pump (underdrive pulleys) adds HP, and helps the engine to rev quicker - that has been proven many times over.

 

Sorry but my B.S. meter lite up on this one. I have been drag racing 45 years, the reason most racers run electric water pumps is to be able to continue to cool the engine after it is shut down ,also to start and stop the cooling process so as to stage at an optimum temp. We run a 90 amp Mopar alternator with a 4 h.p. Briggs and Stratton to charge our batteries. The 4 h.p. covers it readily, I would be surprised if a water pump took more than 4 h.p. also.

 

Drag racers gain on the strip because the energy to run the pump is stored in the battery not drawn from the engine during the run. Over the road the energy energy saved driving the pump must be replaced by energy to drive the alternator. And as stated cooling in the pits is easy.

 

You don't gain 20 hp you do away with parasitic loss. You will only just the HP that was already there. it isn't a constant change as part of the time you'll have to make electricity to run it. But as a rule an electric pump doesn't always run either. They are stat controlled and in a perfect world will only run when your T stat is open.

It also depends on the engine. A banger that uses a smaller pump by nature isn't loosing as much through parasitic loss as a Detroit Diesel.

But there is something to be gained in the performance dept. There is a down side to most aftermarket pumps, they are not designed for street motors. they have a very poor longevity. And are best used for short hops.

 

When I am at the track we charge or top off the battery before every race. I then use switches to keep my electric pump and fan working or off to get the engine to the right temp for my run. Once I clean off the slicks and stage the car the fan switch goes off as I only want the battery/ alt. to run the pump and dist. for the 11 second blast down the track. Don't know the math on H.P. but I spent the $$ on the elect pump and would do it again. Ter409

 

You will find that most real world Dyno tests will find anywhere from 10-20 real world horsepower on 300-400 HP range V8 motors.
I helped a friend put one on a Mustang with the Mod Motor and we back to back tested it - 16 Rear wheel horsepower. That is a real number from the real world not a manufacturers claim (which said it should be 20 HP)
As for those who say the trade off of the alternator having to work harder due to the extra load of the current draw of the electric water pump, it just isn't so. The alternator doesn't draw anywhere near as much power trying to charge as the mechanical water pump does trying to move water through the system. The efficiency factors of the two components are entirely different.

 

Electric water pumps are also nice to run between rounds to let your motor cool down.

 

I think you missed what i was trying to say. I didn't say anything about the electric water pump working any less harder. What the motor sees in the way of drag is either mechanically turning a water pump and the drag of the vanes trying to move water, or it sees the drag of the alternator trying to charge the battery from the electrical draw of the electric water pump. Those are the only two things affecting the motor. The current draw and therefore load of the alternator is less drag than the mechanical water pump. The load of an alternator charging even at high amperage is less than the load of the water pump.

 

CRAZY JOHN...what kind of FAN provision are you talking about? most hotrods that run an electric water pump, don't have an alternater on them. because their usualy drag cars. and i'll take their word on H.P. improvement...POP.

 

If I eliminate the 2 pumps on my flathead, I'll gain 40hp but the engine would fall out! (hahahaa)

But seriously, if you're looking at parasitic HP losses at redline: it makes sense the electric pump would use less power, (even with an alternator running extra to power it)...since it doesn't have to spin so damn fast at redline.

 

How come people dont put a big switch on for the alternator so that it doesnt rob horsepower when your racing or going up a big hill?

 

What hotroddon is saying is that an electric pump being powered by an alternator is more efficient than a mechanical water pump. Its not free energy, just a more efficient way of doing the same amount of work. both can move the same amount of water, the elctric pump just does it with less loss to things like friction,

If its impossible, try to explain why hybrid cars use electric (read alternator powered) powered air conditioning, electric power steering, electric water pumps in order to get better mileage. Its because it takes less mechanical energy to spin a big alternator than all those pumps.