Of a truck? Or, can you replace too much? Here's the deal: I've had my '54 F100 for better than 12 years. It's at the point of needing a lot of rust replacement work. I've had it for over 1/2 of my kid's lives. The always refer to it as Dad's Black Truck. It's been with me longer than my wife. She won't even let me think of changing the color. As she says: You are your truck. It's just you. So, If I replace the cab, and the doors, and two or three fenders, and the bed, and the transmission, and etc, is it the same truck? Do I lose all of the quirks that I know and love. Does it lose it's soul? Just my thoughts as I begin to move forward with keeping this truck going. Thoughts and opinions are welcome. Conor
This question has been asked before... The Ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, or various variants, notably grandfather's axe (US) and Trigger's Broom (UK) is a paradox that raises the question of whether an object which has had all its component parts replaced remains fundamentally the same object. Variations of the paradox Greek legend According to Greek legend as reported by Plutarch, The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same. Plutarch, <CITE>Theseus<SUP id=cite_ref-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP></CITE> Plutarch thus questions whether the ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece. Centuries later, the philosopher Thomas Hobbes introduced a further puzzle, wondering: what would happen if the original planks were gathered up after they were replaced, and used to build a second ship.<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP> Which ship, if either, is the original Ship of Theseus?
I look at it this way... It won't be the same truck, but it will still be your truck. If you decide to improve your truck by repairing old damage, or upgrading the drive train then you will have made your truck better than it was when you got it, and it will be your truck for a lot longer. Maybe even long enough to hand down to those kids. Nice truck by the way.
Motor vehicles have no soul.A soul implies some kind of conscience,self awareness.We have compassion for these vehicles,does the vehicle have compassion for us? Stick you head in the cooling fan when the engine is running,just a bloody nub where a head was,no compassion,no soul.
I found my cars under the rear seat. I wrapped it in plastic and put it back. It's tricky to handle so be careful.
I feel in good company with the Greek philosophers! It helps to know I am not alone. Thank you Special Ed. So, now I can take either side of this question. I know it will occupy the same space. But, that does not make it the same. Yet, if I put the same care into it it will be mine and last longer. I just hope that if I take off all the parts of my truck and replace them with another truck, it will still be my Black Truck. This is all good stuff, keep it coming. Conor
My '49 F-2 was my dad's truck when I was a kid. I spent a lot of time in the truck with him going back and forth to his auto repair shop, hauling parts and going on service calls. The truck was a rot bucket in '69 when he bought it and he patched it up with sheet metal, pop rivets, mud and spray bombs. He went out of business about four years later and about two year later parked the truck on the side of the driveway and that's where it sat until '82 when I tore it apart. I did two restorations, one a very amateurish one just patching it together. A few years later, when I had more money and more auto body knowledge, I did another, better frame up restoration. I replaced literally everything except the frame, axles, radiator, transmission and parts of the box and rear fenders and tailgate. Everything else was replaced. I kept it pretty close to stock so the truck still has the old sounds and ride it had when my dad drove it. Unfortunately, my dad died before I got the last restoration finished and he never saw the truck completed and back on the road. People will ask about "Dad's" truck and I remind them that there's more of truck there that I bought and paid for than my dad owned but it still brings back memories when I bomb around in it. It might sound goofy to some but when I'm driving it by myself, "Betsy", that's what my dad called it, and I have conversations about old times.
Not to get too deep but, all your lifes memories in your brain are tranfered to the new cells as the old ones die and are replaced. This however does not totally apply to cars in my opinion, but to some extent it does. When you restore say, a 32 coupe and the bottom half is repaired with repop patch panels to fix rust, how much of the origional body and or parts have to remain to call it a real 32? In your case i would do repair to as much of the parts you can...soul?
Well, let's see. On my '53 Chevy truck I've replaced the cab with a less rusty one, subframed it, plan on back halfing the frame, and building a custom box. When (or if!) I get done with it all that will be left of the original truck will be a short section in the middle of the frame, doors, and front fenders. Is it still the same truck? In my heart-and according to the title- it is.
if I had to do major repairs on my cars body I would fix it rather than replace everything. wouldn't be the same car.
Yeah I'm not sure what kind of soul my old truck has. It more like a love hate relationship. But I admit when people saw my truck and knew me knew it was my truck. Right now she's just sittin, and waiting patiently for a freshened up soul.
Somehow you need to strike a balance between saving the old truck and keeping the old parts. If you don't repair and replace in time you won't have anything so there is really no choice but to move ahead. As long as you keep some piece of the original truck it will have its connection to your history with it.
You love it, you lavish time and passion and care on it.....it's part of the family and as you repair or replace parts all that love flows into them and the truck remains the same. Thats where the soul is. Great thread. F
All I found under the back seat of the Chevy was a rusty wrench and a dead mouse. Shit. Special Ed, you use your tongue purtier than a twenty dollar whore!
the soul of any vehicle is in the builder or owner the machine itself is just a bunch of metal bolted/welded together not to be moribid or anything .but, if you (GOD forbid) were in a serious head-on collision in your truck and you found all the parts needed to repair it afterward would this question you asked still have merit?
A little off topic vehicle, but I have had my 79 lowered chevy shorbox fleetside for 17 years. Over that time I have replaced all the sheetmetal but the cab and now I have an airconditioned cab with minimal rust to replace it. All the front suspension and everything but the rear springs and frame rails have been changed as has the motor and tranny. It still looks like my old truck, but is it really? Feels like my old truck, but when I change to an air conditioned cab, I don't know if it will be the same. I think it is just a state of mind and I should get over it. Still like the truck no matter what is left of the original. I have had lots of old cars while I have owned the truck, but it is still here and will always be here. Pat.
I appreciate all the well thought replies. I love my truck and love driving it with all the comfortable, familiar creaks and rattles. But, the roof is rusting through and it needs all 4 cab corners. I have a replacement cab that is in better shape, but, working in that doesn't feel the same. Balance. I like that. Maybe more repair, less replacement. I don't know if the question would be the same. I do think the feeling would be there and probably more so.
I think the soul of any vehicle you own is YOU. Vehicles reflect part of our own soul back upon us. When you get in to take it for a spin, you are the soul sitting in the heart of your truck. That's what you are feeling.
Okay, special Ed, Plutarch….Plutarch? Would have never gone there, but that’s just me. Bye the way I miss your early L.A. photos. Someone mentioned “How much rust could a California car have? I used to live in Boulder Creek a few miles North of Santa Cruz and can tell you it either is coastal Pacific Ocean salt laden fog or is raining from September to May in that part of CA. Rust is a problem. Next the vintage race car guys will tell you that if you have the original frame “you have the vehicle” even if it is hanging from the rafters. Body metal gets bumped, replaced etc. Fix what is needed and go on. Body metal is not the “soul”. You and it’s caretakers are.
This bugs me, no offense, but a car is just so much sheet metal, thats why i could never give my car a name, like some people do. It's a pile of steel, welds, oil and grease wrapped in rubber and plastic. Now, people have the soul: defined as mind ,will and emotions....I really enjoy my cars, because they are fun, not because they have a soul. My thought........fyi Roll it Dad, then if you give it to your children when you pass, they will remember you, not the cold steel...You will be the warm thoughts and memories, in their hearts and minds...
I have a hammer that used to belong to my granpa, the handle has been replaced 3 times and the head twice, it's still special credit to Tim Adams for the hammer story.
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