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driveshaft phasing help please!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by greg, May 23, 2010.

  1. greg
    Joined: Dec 5, 2006
    Posts: 537

    greg
    Member

    I have a small vibration in my car between 60-65.:confused: I just changed wheels but its still there. its in the steering wheel, and can feel it in my right foot. Here is what i have.

    39 ford
    mustang 2 front
    8 in ford rear with parallel leafs.

    if you can follow my description. The car is raised in the rear on jackstands.

    trans is 1deg down, pointing down toward the rear.
    driveshaft is 6 deg up, pointing up toward the rear.
    rear pinion is 3 deg down, pointing down toward the front of the car.

    I hope this all makes since!!!!!
     

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  2. Antny
    Joined: Aug 19, 2009
    Posts: 1,071

    Antny
    BANNED
    from Noo Yawk

    Is the driveshaft in-phase (spiders acting 90 degrees from each other)? Has it been balanced? Start with the easy stuff.
     
  3. greg
    Joined: Dec 5, 2006
    Posts: 537

    greg
    Member

    I had it shortened by a driveshaft shop and i believe they did balance it. and the spiders are in phase. my rear is 4 deg off from where it should be but dont know if thats enough to hurt
     
  4. onlychevrolets
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 2,307

    onlychevrolets
    Member

    the pinion should be tilted downward about 3 to 5 degrees with the car at ride height ...this allows the pinion to raise when under acceleration. the pinion should never go over a straight line with the drive shaft. Is the shaft to long? As the shaft raises it could be bottoming out in the transmission.
     
  5. greg
    Joined: Dec 5, 2006
    Posts: 537

    greg
    Member

    the drive shaft doesnt look too long.
    does the rear pinion angle need to be the same angle as the transmission?
     
  6. The degrees of the trans and pinion should cancel each other out. Trans +1 Pinion -1 ETC
     
  7. eddy g
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 8

    eddy g
    Member
    from east texas

    from what i understand trans points down x # of degrees the pinion points up same # degrees. thats how i set mine up seems to be ok.
     
  8. greg
    Joined: Dec 5, 2006
    Posts: 537

    greg
    Member

    ok thanks. i just happen to have shims to try that.
     
  9. RDR
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,545

    RDR
    Member

    Up or down at the pinion...needs to cancel out what is degreed at the trans...if trans is @ 3 degrees then pinion needs 3 degrees UP or DOWN within a couple degrees either way...yours should be OK on the plane you checked...is the engine trans straight in the frame and rear axle square in frame? I need to add...AT RIDE HEIGHT....you mentioned you're up on stands in the rear.....and am guessing the stands are under the axle?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  10. greg
    Joined: Dec 5, 2006
    Posts: 537

    greg
    Member

    rdr, yes it is under the axle. everthing is square. i have driven this car 14k miles like it is. and the vibration isnt huge, but it is enough to bug me at highway speed. mine checked 4 degrees out. I know its not really bad but neither is the vibration. just anoying.
     
  11. Brickster
    Joined: Nov 23, 2003
    Posts: 1,130

    Brickster
    Member

    run it in the air with the wheels off. It still could be your wheels. A drivelive vibration usually has a higher frequency and a wheel vibration.
     
  12. turdytoo
    Joined: May 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,568

    turdytoo
    Member

    That's dirt track logic. Try Googling "drive shaft angles Dana".
     
  13. Steve-Cook
    Joined: Jul 22, 2007
    Posts: 488

    Steve-Cook
    Member
    from Garner, NC

  14. greg
    Joined: Dec 5, 2006
    Posts: 537

    greg
    Member

    Had my front tires re-balanced. again, and still have vibration.

    I re angled my rear axle per steve-cooks link to empire. That should all be good.

    I raised the car up on jack stands( at ride height) and ran it up to 80mph. everything seems smooth with the rear of the car.

    I am trying another set of fronts in a few days to eliminate a tire issue. or to prove one.
     
  15. Driveshaft angle means nothing, the driveshaft just joins the trans to the rear...its angle means absolutely nothing. The important angles are the trans and the rear end. If the trans is 3 degrees down then the rearend must be three degrees UP not down. If you were to draw an imaginary line through the trans, and an imaginary line through the rearend, the lines need to be parallel to each other. The only exception to this rule is when you need to compensate for lear spring flex or wrap up when the car is under power. The rearend should be tilted down a couple of degrees IN RELATION TO THE TRANS. Lets pretend the angle of the trans is 3 degrees down ... now set the rear so the imaginary lines are parallel which means the rear is three degrees UP.... now from the 3 degrees UP you can drop the rear 2 degrees down. End result is the trans ends up 3 degrees down the rear ends up 1 degree up but under power the leaf springs flex and allow the rear to move up 2 degrees or so which brings the rearend back to the 3 degrees up so the planes (or imaginary lines) are equal as they should be. Wow, this message even confuses me and I wrote it. Hope this helps.

    I stand by my comment regarding driveshaft angle meaning nothing...in cases of street rods it means nothing, in the case of a 4x4 pickup that is being raised a large amount, the driveshaft angle does become a problem because of the extreme angle in relation to the trans and the rearend.

    If your trans is 1 degree down then you rear should be 1 degree up for the trans and rear to be on the same plane. You now need to drop the angle of your rear down 2 degrees from plane. Meaning your rear should be 1 down and it should come up to 1 up when power is being applied. Sounds to me like you are out 2 degrees...easily fixed using shims.

    One other thing you might want to look into, I have found that factory GM rally wheels can be horribly out of round (don't know what you are running, just using this as an example). I mean out of round up and down and out of round wobble. Might want to check you wheels for runout if you are running steel wheels. This can also happen when running aluminum wheels that are two piece and welded together (as opposed to one piece cast aluminum wheels that are machined on a lathe).

    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  16. makindue84
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 5

    makindue84
    Member

    I think it has a sense. I am having hard time also the same as your problem. Specially when I am the trans, it suddenly down.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  17. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    Just to add to the stew!
    It's often recommended, to have u-joints flexing thru ~3 degrees, just to keep from brinnelling the same-spot on their yoke pins, via needle bearing contact. Said to help insure that grease is pumped around too.
    Helps to imagine a vertical plane, where pinion offset lives, in addition to the horizontal plane, where his angles are depicted.
     

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