OK, to be real honest I am a flathead retard. I know a little but I have a chance to buy a flathead out of a 40 ford truck (commercial) it has a running flatty in it. The markings show a T in the castings. I don't remember the other numbers. I am ***uming that this would be a truck engine? What are the differences between the std and the truck engines? Any help is appreciated. He's looking to me for pricing but I can't help him.......
Big trucks had the 99T engine which is similar to the mercury 99A and both were 239cid. Most other ford cars & pickups in 1940 would have had the 81A 221 cid block or a little 60 HP V8. It's been many years p***ed and most had some kind of an engine swap. A 59A V8 from 46 thru 48 was a common swap to get a little more power with the 239 cid. You just never know till you open it up & measure it.
If it's a real '40 99T, you'll have something that you might like... Look at the block and see if the intake deck is raised slightly...'40 and '41 only. Also look at the ID number stamped on the intake deck at the driver's side rear corner. And finally, look at the top of the cast bell housing. It should be blank as apposed to having the typical "59A" cast into it. I have a raised deck block in my sedan. It's been rebuilt once and it's an original block that carries an unaltered '40 Merc ID number. As stated in an earlier post trucks and Mercs shared the same engine during that time period. 99T heads have a little higher compression, I think. I love mine... .020 over with a standard crank. Bone stock and it runs like a champ.
I'll have to get the numbers again. He talked to me about a year ago and I never heard anymore from him. He says he plans on getting it running (it has been sitting) this weekend and then I can come and drive it. Thanks guys
Here are a couple of pics as a reference. The raised intake base is obvious. A little hard to see while the engine is ***embled and in the truck, but still visible. You can also see the id number location on the driver's side rear of the deck. These numbers tended to get obliterated pretty fast... If the block was changed for any reason, you may or may not see any number at all. Also, a lot of rebuilders/shops would stamp numbers all over the deck area for reasons lost to history......So I would not be too surprised if the number didn't resemble anything Ford might have stamped. Anyway... the number is the same as the VIN number on the frame. If this is an original engine, the number will have all the characteristics of a number you'd find on a frame, including the "star" stamp that precede and follow the model/serial number. If it's not a '40/'41 block it's still a viable engine. Most replacement were made with 59 series blocks, which are just as good, just not as neat (my opinion only).
Casting numbers are on the heads and so give you no information about block. 239 and 221 of a given year look the same... Some '39-40 239's will have 99 stamped, not cast, near front of manifold deck on block. Good indicator, unless seller knows this... You can approximate year, but not displacement, otherwise. '39-40 has two freeze plugs on each pan rail, plugs are out of sight but sides of block show bulges to accomodate them. Raised pad (actually, lowered shoulders) for manifold is '41-2 civilian or wartime. If none of this...look for the postwar 59 on bellhousing. 59's became by far the most common replacement for earlier flatheads. And...the 221 replacement block was based on the 59 (41A), so it is possible to find an engine cast with the 59 that is a 221... So, you MUST pull a head to figure out what's what.
And just because it measures a 239, doesnt mean it started life as one, ive got a couple of what i belive are 221 blocks running .040 and .060 239 pistons
This applies to any motor you have the chance to run/drive before purchasing. Take a look at the coolant and oil levels. Crank it up. Check the oil pressure. Look in the radiator after it's been run for a minute or so, before it gets up to operating temp. Then drive it. Don't be persuaded to drive it less than at least a half hour at 45-50 mph. Be wary of any explainations as to why you can't check it out thouroughly. If the battery is dead(old song, second verse!), offer to go get one. By the end of a half hour test drive it will be completely warmed up. Check the oil pressure. Shut it off and restart it. Look at the oil on the dipstick and in the radiator for any indication of cross contamination between the oil and coolant. Look and listen for abnormalities. After the test drive do a compression check. At that point you will have an opinion of it's condition.
Once heads are off of a '39-42 type...there is a water hole difference between 221 and 239's, which I would need to look up, and if you look through the lower keystone hole you can see on a 239 that you are looking at the thickest cylinder wall you have ever seen. It nearly reaches the edge of the hole.
It was a little tough getting a clear picture, but here it is.This is the only number stamped on this block. Since Bruce has joined in on this thread, maybe he can interpret it correctly. Also, a picture of the stamped number on the head.
If that's an "M" at the end of the number, that is NOT a VIN. FoMoCo didn't use letters in the end portion of the VIN in that era. Lots of different letter combinations possible in the beginning of the VIN, but not at the end. Just a number and the star. And, I'm guessing that what ever that number is was stamped after the ***embly line. Who knows why, but it probably was.
I got lucky, indeed. My engine was built in March of '68, run for just a couple of miles and then stored till I got it in '03. It is an original factory block that was installed in, most likely, a big truck. It's on it's first rebuild with a crank that's .010 under and a .020 bore. I'm still running the genuine Ford remanufactured crab distributor that was installed in '68. The number appears to be 1940, but I'm uncertain about the R preceding the 99 and I don't know if the "dash" following the 99 is actually a dash or the numeral 1 stamped on it's side. I'm kinda hoping Bruce might visit again and shed some light on it. Other characteristics: --99T heads=100hp Ford truck and Merc '39 to '41 (not conclusive as heads come and go...) --NO freeze plug bumps on the sides of the block= '41 and later --Raised intake mounting surface='41 to '42 --Water jacket holes on top of the cylinder area are consistent with '39-'42 blocks --No cast markings on top of the bell housing area='42 and earlier. As near as I can tell, from the above clues my engine is a '41, making the id number more of mystery.....
I've seen the Ford ID numbers stamped into the inatke manifold, the upper block deck and even an engine head. Several states required vehicles to have engine numbers which Ford accomodated by having the numbers stamped into the engines at the dealerships in those states. That's one reason so many sets of number stamps exist.
I didn't write this, the builder of my 221 wrote this up for me. Don't know if all the info is correct or what's left out. I just thought I'd p*** it on to be added to or changed. Basically he called this the evolution of the flathead ford. 1932 to 1933 Main Bolts through to Lalter Valley 1932 to 1934 No Cam Bearings 1932 to 1934 36 Tooth Cam Gear 1932 to 1935 Babbit Mains 1932 to 1936 2.00" Main Journals 1932 to 1937 Water Pumps in Heads 1932 to 1937 Timing Gear Pressed On 1932 to 1938 Rod Housing Bores 2.200" 1932 to 1938 21 Stud Heads 1932 to 1938 1.937 Rod Bearing Width (Flanged) 1932 to 1940 Core Plugs in Oil Pan Rails 1932 to 1942 2.00 Rod Journals 1932 to 1945 3 1/16" Bore 1932 to 1945 No Rear Seal 1932 to 1945 Irregular Water Holes 1932 to 1945 One Oil Hole Per Rod Throw 1932 to 1948 2 Piece Valve Guides 1932 to 1948 Mushroom Valves 1932 to 1948 Integral Bellhousing 1935 to 1948 Main Studs 1935 to 1948 Oil Filler/Breather Tube 1935 to 1948 44 Tooth Cam Gear 1935 to 1948 3 Cam Bearings 1936 - 1937 Thick Wall Main Bearings 1937 to 1938 2.400" Main Bearings 1937 to 1949 Water Outlets in Center of Heads 1938 to 1948 Water Pumps in the Block 1938 to 1948 Timing Gear Bolted On 1939 to 1946 1.750" Rod Bearing Width (No Flange) 1939 to 1942 2.00" Rod Journals (1.750" Wide) 1939 to 1948 24 Head Studs 1939 to 1948 2.500" Main Journals 1941 to 1942 Raised Intake Mount (Not Proven) 1942 to 1948 Rod Housing Bores 2.360" 1942 to 1948 2.139" Rod Journals (1.750" Wide) 1942 to 1953 2.139" Rod Journals 1942 - 1945 WAR, No General Production 1946 to 1948 Triangle and 2 Round Water Holes 1946 to 1948 3 3/16" Bore 1946 to 1948 Rear Main Caps with Drain Tubes / No Seals 1946 to 1948 "59" Casting 1949 to 1953 "Shorty Oil Pump 1949 to 1953 2 Oil Holes Per Rod Throw 1949 to 1953 Individual Rod Bearings 1949 to 1953 2 Oil Holes in Rod Throws 1949 to 1953 Distributor Moved to Top Right 1949 to 1953 Bolt on Bellhousing 1949 to 1953 One Piece Valve Guides 1949 to 1953 Modern Style Vavles and Keepers 1950 to 1953 New Helical Gear Design Oil Pump
*unless its a replacement block. my buddys 59 series turned out to be a replacement 221 for a 35 truck. it was cobbeled together with parts of the original engine and the 46-48 block. why someone would want the smaller bore was confusing to us though.......
Try going to www.vanpeltsales.com. They have an engine id section that lists the numbers stamped on the blocks. My Fathead is 185278399 meaning it is out of a 1940 Ford.
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