This should get the heads spinning. I have followed the declining values in sales of cl***ic cars for over a year now. How much do you think the value have gone down 10-15-20-25% ?? Sad to say but the cars I have seen selling are bringing as much as 20% less than they did two years ago.
All the more reason to buy now and keep the ones you have.....at least that's what you can tell your wife ha! I don't plan on selling any of my cars anytime soon and if I were I might trade anyways.
with the economy of north america in the tank, I have no doubt in some areas it is even more. Many people are liquidating thier toys, recreational properties and other such "joy" ***ets
This coin has two sides. It is now cheaper to buy cars. I for one am happy to see the "investors" getting out of the cl***ic car market and leaving the cars to those that enjoy them. Charlie Stephens
"Markets" such as they are shouldn't gauge interest or value. In the cl***ic car "market", it is always the newest fad bringing in the most dollars. Case in point, the muscle car category. You have folks with deep pockets buying all kinds of hemi this or shelby that, but has the interest a**** car people really changed? Those who were into it before are most likely still into it, they just can't afford it because it is now on the radar of an "investor" that is essentially buying "stock" in a false market. Then when the prices, driven up by those who bought the latest thing, are out of reach of the interested majority the price drops because those that "have" want to sell and those that "want" can't meet the price that the folks that "have" believe should still be there. Or at least this is my take. Is the market down? Maybe. Should that effect interest or value? No.
The prices for "Project cars" are falling and falling. I cannot believe what is available on Los Angeles Craigslist. Prices are sometimes 1/4th of what they were 2 years ago. On the other side of the coin there are not many "nice" cars available at a bargain price. Their owner are usually financially secure and just wait this depression out. I am looking for a very good '59 Vette and cannot find any bargains.
I don't know. I seem to not be able to find a good running car and not a rusted out piece of **** for less then 8500-10,000. Everything I have seen in the 5000-6000 dollar range is a total **** box or a 4 door **** box. I think the market has slowed for sure but not dropped to much. People who bought at a high price still want the high price now that they want to sell it.
your head is spinning from watching prices for one year? I've only been watching prices for close to 40 years, it seems the prices of what I want have always been just out of reach but in the last few years prices have been down right stupid fueled by a fad driven, fast profit, short sighted mentality no doubt some of those so called investors will lose big time I could care less
I don't see the prices of cars down that much in the 10-20k area, Maybe 10%? I'm basing that on hamb ads, I'm sure there are stats based on auctions that could show a trend, but I can't afford those cars so I don't pay attention. Honestly I expected hotrod values to fall more. I did see a few surprises at pomona last weekend, along with the usual insane prices.
A lot of guys I know used to "park" some money in $10k to $20k cars to keep from dipping into the funds. And they could always easily cash out when they needed to. I think many ordinary people now need to keep their funds available in case of job cuts or other surprises. I'm stuck with a nice driver that would have sold quickly, IMO, two years ago for what I need out of it, but no bites now. I'll just wait. Great cars for high end buyers aren't as affected these days. I agree that it would be nice to get the "investor mentality" out of the driver quality cars.
The high end stuff will still find a buyer. Most of those folks are recession proof. The whole muscle car market went way to high IMO. I think the economists call it irrational exuberance?
I think it depends on what car's you are talking about. It's not only the recession that's making a difference, but it's also a change in taste driven by demographics. Try selling a 1929 Packard roadster versus a '32 Brookville roadster with a 302-C4 and vintage air. People today are busy and want a turn key car they can drive anywhere to impress their friends. Wrenching a project or playing project manager between 5 different shops for 3 years is not high on the list. Like a friend of mine said a few years back; "Here's the ****ing key. That's all you understand." Well, he wasn't too far off from what I've seen. The same applies to houses and boats these days. Some cars have really gone down. At a recent auction in Toronto, they couldn't get bidders to $30K for really nice (older restoration) '55-56 T-birds, whereas muscle cars had lots of interest.
Well I tell ya, up here in the northeast I saw terrible 30 A coupe body for 3 grand. I did my first A coupe and the body cost $350. That was in 1983 but I don't see the price drop thing.
Just go on $-bay and do a completed item search on 32 fords most of them are unsold or thousands below their reserve.
Quality goods will always bring quality prices. Rusty, substandard **** will always be a soft market.
The real CL***ICS - Pre 1940 Packards, Pierce-Arrow, Duesenbergs, Cord, Auburn, Marmons, all the V-12 and V-16 cars, etc have a panache that still attracts the money and the (as previously mentioned) recession-proof millionaires who love them for what they are rather than for what they can bring down the road. Those cars will continue to trade owners within that niche of people who can afford pretty much anything. Sub-cl***ics - the US cars of the 20s and 30s that friends and neighbors actually bought and drove (standard Caddies, Pontiacs, Fords, Buicks and most all other vehicles that are not exalted above all others will see larger swings in value (still discussing older cars here). Aside from the cars best suited to HAMBer needs, most of the cars of that vintage are losing the people that remember them first-hand. Restored Model As bring much less between private sellers, than a well-constructed A hot rod. Leaving the feeding frenzy of the auctions (and the proliferation of those companies) aside, there has been a decline in value, mostly for the reasons outlined previously. When the economy tightens up, then you have to create income by divesting yourself of those toys you acquired when times were better. I noticed that someone in this thread referenced monitoring car values by watching Craigslist - not a good barometer - I don't care what dimwits who cannot spell are asking for or paying for any cars. I have been subscribing to Hemmings for a very long time, and while generally speaking, the prices within that august tome can be lofty, you can see the effect that those auction prices for muscle cars are having on the market in general. Dip**** has a 65 Cutl*** 4dr sedan with a frozen engine, 2spd auto, frosted gl***, inoperable systems sees an early 442 go for big bucks and automatically ***umes it has some positive effect on his POS. Big laugh yesterday - watching C/List here in Vegas...guy is selling some large GM 2dr hdtp - don't recall the year, but it was not HAMB-friendly. Nonetheless - his copy read: "in a few more years it will be a cl***ic, then the value will go up 3 or 4 thousand dollars" What a ***** - thinks a simple dictionary description is how car values are determined. Your guys at these auctions come from three places - actual dudes with some coin in their pocket who can now afford the GTO they dreamed about in HS.....guys with much more coin who really don't know that modifying a Roadrunner is a bad thing....and the third group (and largest from my observations) - car dealers who will then resell the car to someone who thinks they can afford it just because a bank will lend on it (remind you of a recent housing debacle?). Ultimately the auction prices will settle down...some will get out of the business, and many of the astronomical prices paid will cause moaning and the gnashing of teeth by the 'investors' who failed to recognize fads in this hobby. Four years ago you could buy a decent 1967 Shelby GT500 4spd/inboards/mags for about $25k - look at all Shelby Mustangs now....over $100k and nearing a quarter million for any early R cars or anything with compe***ion provenance. The roadsters are even higher....but that is honestly a totally separate market (which has been *******ized by Shelby himself signing every glovebox door that's put in front of him) The Registry has also been polluted by the "Eleanor" cars, which for some reason Shelby also decided to recognize. As with all things, this situation will cure itself - the gatherers will begin to divest and we bargain-hunters will begin, once again, to acquire. I suppose I have used up my alloted time on the subject....diverted from the subject...and now I will desist. dj
Well said, Mr Propwash. " I noticed that someone in this thread referenced monitoring car values by watching Craigslist - not a good barometer - I don't care what dimwits who cannot spell are asking for or paying for any cars. " ^^^ Yup^^^^^
I'm not really sure I've seen that big a swing, I've been looking on and off for 5 window coupes for years now. '29-'32. Seems to me the prices haven't changed much or they definitely haven't gone down. A runner jalopy is gonna go for 7500-12,500, a true roller from 4500-6000, and a shell for 1500-3000. Price ranges depends on how far from pay day, and what the owner has been smoking before posting the advert.
I try to use "CCCA Cl***ic" these days because people call any ****box a "Cl***ic". I agree with your points with regard to the top tier cars - in some ways they are as strong as ever because they are viewed as a strong investment a****st the millionaires/billionaires. One thing though, there are lots of middle to upper middle cl*** guys that have a single car that may be worth 50k to 400k that they own only because they bought it 25 years ago. As far as project cars go, your average guy who is not a multi-talented wiz cannot afford to restore a car. Most cars, with the exception of the top tier ones could be given to you for free and if you have to full restore them, you will lose money in the end.
Eh, prices will fluctuate with the economy to some extent because there's always a percentage of car buyers buying for status symbol or to have a shiny new toy to impress people, and there are only so many Jay Lenos with money to burn who are actual car guys. I wouldn't use one year's price changes as a gauge, but if they dropped over five years then I'd say there's a trend. But with s**** prices repeatedly spending time in the $200 a ton range, the supply of projects and parts is drying up more and more, and sooner or later that's going to drive up the buy-in price to have an old car in the first place. Nice or a piece of ****.
I honestly think things are "right-sizing" to degree. Take the housing market. In some parts of the states, 1000 sq ft house for $950K or a Million dollar 67 Camaro? Something had to give. I read somewhere that in the 60's, the average new home was $84k in todays market. Greed plays a part as does the whole "midlife gotta buy what I had" in my teen/early 20's phase for the demand. BMX parts immediatly comes to mind. Though I have lost nearly 60K on my house I'm sticking with it. Things seem to be getting "fair" again. We may want to start stocking up on late 70's cordoba's and "bad guys chase cars". I'm sure there will be a market for those in the near future!
The Jalopy Journal
