First, I've exhausted my searching abilities (both here and elsewhere) and I'm still uncertain. I've come away with text book (read basic) type information but no real answers. I'm getting near the stage of my 1920 T build where I'd like to get the body into better shape for paint and final assembly. I'm uncertain about what actually would be the best way to clean the metal in order to prep it for paint. There are quite a bit of issues with the 90 year-old tin. Most notably: - it's thin - has some pin holes - cracks along the bottom and a few near the windshield mount - the wood belt line area is pretty much gone from age and pulling the wood away with the nails intact - a panel has been replaced and the weld has to be metal-finished -there is no wood left so the body flexes like mad I'm planning to redo the wood but would like to do so with the body in better condition. Honestly, I don't have the skills, tools or know-how of many on the board and I don't expect to have the body looking like glass just better than it presently does. As well, I know there's only so much that can be done with the metal as it is. So, what would you all recommend? Sand (or other mediums) seem too harsh. A grinder would most likely thin the metal even more if I were to do the whole body that way. Chemicals I'm uncertain about, especially after searching. Here are a few pics of the subject-at-hand. Some of the issues aren't readily seen by the pics unfortunately.
Brent, great looking body! Sheet metal work is definitely not my strong point, but you might want to consider Picklex on the sections that are surface rusty & pitted. It's kind of like ospho, but instead of turning rusty metal black, it cleans it down to shiny/clean metal with a little work. And it is way let harsh than ospho. You could also start with a cup brush on an electric grinder as well. Just wear good eye protection! I have been pleasantly surprised how well Picklex seems to remove serious surface rust. I spray it on with a spray bottle, & do a small (maybe 1 foot square) section at a time. Let it sit for 30 seconds or so, and start scrubbing with a stiff scuff pad. You could even wire brush it if it was really rusty. Picklex dries out pretty quick, & you'll want to keep the panel wet. Within short order you'll get to clean metal. When you have it where you want it, wipe the area with a clean dry cloth & move on. It's not the cheapest stuff, but I have had really good success with it. Maybe others will chime in with their experience. Good luck with this! Dan
Never heard of Picklex, sounds interesting. We always had them LIGHTLY dusted at teh blaster then cleaned with a 7" BLACK 3M cleaning disk.
That's the route I've pretty much read elsewhere. Although, I'm concerned about the definitional differences there could be with "lightly dusted." I get that any "blown through" area will have to be repaired but I don't want to push this body any more to the brink than it already is. I've got to talk to the guy the Salt Flats Speed Shop uses. He did a great job on my coupe. However, the coupe was really solid and I'm thinking Ford thickened up the panels in as their products developed.
Anyone else want to throw their two cents into the conversation and direct me to the best way to get the body into better shape? I'm not too big on bumping my own threads but I sure could use as much info as possible on this subject.
the best way to fix old sheet metal is to get a 55 gallon drum of bondo, some galvanized steel plates, duct tape, bubble gum, fiberglass, drywall screws, and a soldering gun. now the first step is to used the bubble gum to temporarily hold the galvanized steel plate over the area with rust. next apply the duct tape to hold it gooder. then screw in the drywall screws so that bugger aint movin nowhere. use the soldering gun to cover the seams and fill any extra rust holes. then coat liberally in fiberglass. next mix the whole 55 gallon drum and make sure nobody would every be able to scrape away that much bondo to find the rust and u should have a show quality vehicle sorry im probably not very helpful
Another option: Electrolytic rust removal. Google it, you'll get all sorts of hits. It will remove only the oxide, not sound metal. Basically, you mix a solution of washing soda and water, put it in a container large enough to hold your part, and connect a battery charger to the part and a ground electrode or cage in the solution. (or use a metal container) I saw a pic somewhere of a wood frame with a waterproof tarp draped in it, the guy was doing a trailer frame. Are your body panels all welded together? If not, disassembly would allow you to do a panel at a time in a smaller container.
I would try fibreglass layers on the inside at difficult curved spots. Flat ones coat with heavy bondo, then sheet metal screw a heavier piece inside immediately. Use enough screws to make a nice sandwitch. When all cured, cut the sheet metal screws off, tack weld the cut off ends, and gently grind. Then fiish with bondo. Workes pretty good. I have done this on a few hoods to stop the buckling, and it worked very well. Good luck....
I used http://metalrehab.com/ in Arlington, TX for most of my 36 body sheetmetal. Granted, my sheetmetal is in better shape, but their methods WILL NOT remove any metal, only the stuff you don't want like rust and paint, and will show you the truth about what you REALLY have to work with. There were some pinholes exposed that I was unaware of and was able to fix. Removing rust and paint mechanically (sanding, striping disks, sandblasting, etc.) on your body will also remove good metal unnecessarily and you don't want that. Check out their site and read about their methods, they don't use any acids! Maybe there is someone in your area who does something similar? An example:
Brent, up here where it's damp and rust catches up with us, we often figure out a simplest method of using things like small dimension 3/4 , 1 or 1-1/2 square tube and form the top cockpit rail. Then add a couple of rear of cockpit verticals and a diagonal to stiffen the body up. The guys have offered some good metal cleanups, hope you can get this one to a good point.
Yes, we've talked about doing metal reinforcing instead of wood. However, I'm excited about working with wood (once the body is ready for it). I like the authenticity of the way the car has been put together thus far and wood helps maintain that, I believe.
I think you just need to play with it,get a cheap blaster and some -30 media or finner and start blasting,if you need to clamp some sheet metal behind to keep from blowing thru,so be it,but if its that thin you will want to cut it out anyway,its a fine line,just like welding on thin sheet,the shit just blows thru and you have to keep cutting metal out till you get to some decent metal,just be carefull and take your time,start off with a wire wheel and clean and strip disc and maybe some rust desolver,that will be that much more time you dont have to hold your sandblaster on it,if you blast it yourself you can do alot better job,remember time is money and alot of people blasting dont take the extra effort on to be carefull. Hows the coupe, any progress,mines slow,have a new 6 month old girl,plus a 3 and 5 year old,you ever get hitched...later quinton
I have to say blasting your metal in any way shape or form will destroy it. What doesn't blow through will warp. A commercial dipper like Redi Strip will do a great non destructive job. You can safely sand the metal with 80 grit, just don't bear down hard on unsupported panels. Rust holes should be welded closed. Learn to weld or have someone do this for you. After metal work is complete, treat all panels inside and out with a rust converter to kill rust that can't be seen unless you use someone like Redi Strip. Prime and paint inner surfaces for lasting protection. Make patterns and start making the wood pieces. Count on making lot's of curved pieces. It's a small body so it shouldn't overwhelm you. Take your time and do it just once.
The coupe is good. Sitting in storage waiting to become a roller. I've got some goodies waiting for it. I figured a 32 frame should have a 32 heavy under it and 32 bones up front... so I saved some pennies for those. it's ready to put together as a roller but I got other projects along with it now, this 20 and a 27 roadster to go along with it. Yes, it'll be a year married in October... thanks for asking. No kids yet for me... just hot rods. AND... congrats on the newest little Bryant! You're outnumbered by females now!!! There are two areas both same areas on each side of the car that I know there'd be blow-through on. Finding a place to dip it or have it stripped like mentioned above will be the least harsh on the metal. Once it's stripped I definitely plan to seal it. I appreciate all the comments guys. It's helped a bunch. I'm looking forward to getting back on it.
Wow! Hope I never buy a car from you! Do you have anyone in your area that does soda blasting or walnut shell blasting? If so, there is no metal deformation at all. Downside is it does not remove heavy rust but if you chemically stripped it first you would have clean, honest metal to work with and decide your course of action.
I'm sure we do have blasters that use soda and other mediums. I'm really wondering about the chemical dipping around here, though. There isn't rally many areas where moisture collects on these bodies that'd allow for capillary action. Plus I like that the paint and rust would be taken off relatively easily leaving me "honest metal" to work with, like you said. And even the flawed areas would be less flawed compared with being blasted, I presume.
If you don't plan on welding on the body? How 'bout POR 15. I have had good luck with it. Maybe just do the inside only. If it is as thin as you say I would be reluctant to disturb it at all. There is an SEM product that will turn it black and prep it for primer and paint. A lot of choices out there.
Having seen a few other T's from the era I'd say they were all "thin." I'm not sure of any other way to describe the metal. It's solid mostly, but "thin" too. I don't want to blast it away and thin in out in an effort to remove surface rust or paint. Por15 from my understanding adheres to rusty metal really well and that's fine and good but it doesn't do much in preserving the metal or allowing me to fix the body up. That is what I gather from searches... am I off on that? Also, there are areas that need fixing, cracks and pin-holes and such. It looks like most options have pros and cons but I'm looking for what will suite this body best in the interest of cleaning it up to fix issues and then preserve it. This body will never be a concourse winner, nor will the rest of the car for that matter but I'm positive that I want to maintain the same integrity throughout the build. Keeping with that, I'm not interested fiberglassing, band-aides, or other "fixes" of that nature. Keep me in line fellas... I'm loving the input!
POR 15 or SEM Rust Seal would work well as a finish on insides of finished panels and SEM Rust Mort would work well on exterior sides as a prep for primer.
A friend-mechanic talked w/me about a POR product that he found useful, having fibers reinforcing as it was part of the coating. On the interior sides of panels this might be useful. I recall that the "metal" people talked about passivated steel, meaning: a stablized rusted surface layer...I suspect this is part of the POR strategy in it's chemistry. Some threads here talk of Phospo or phosphoric acid, that leaves a very protective "clean" surface on steel. Some have written of acid left in crevices later raising havoc w/finished paint, so probably worth checking into.
If the areas are bad enough to blow through it does not matter anyway, THEY NEED TO BE REPLACED. Anything else is a bandaid. Lightly blast it or us one of the cheicals shown and get fixxin!
May want to contact Littleman...I know he had plenty of pinholes in his truck. I think he glassed it, but that's all I know.
Like t man said and i said,just lightly blast and replace metal or just use por 15 mesh mat and por 15 and skim it and paint it,theres no way to get around it,i say do the 2nd and drive the fuck out of it,you have your coupe to get fancy with. Most that tell you not to blast would bondo it up anyway...
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