Questions about this 327 I just bought..Expert motor guys needed...

The Comp Cams roller tip rockers are fine. But, I think the ones pictured are the cheaper Pro Forms (or whatever that brand is). Either way, make sure someone put in heat treated pushrods, or either brand roller tip rocker will eat the ball right off them

 

Feeling better now. Bought the Comp Cams ones. Not a hell of a lot cheaper than the speedshop brand aluminum roller rockers. But needed something that would fit under those low valve covers. Agree that the Asian no-names might have some metallurgy issues...

 

Mine are just the factory rockers, correct? I plan on running these valve covers. Will ARR's fit under them?

 

3991492 350 LT1, 70, 64cc, straight plug, camel hump
3991492 Over counter, strt or angle plug, 64cc, 157/62cc ports
MSA1 book lists years as 1968 to 1973
Either way, you have a very good set of GM heads. These heads can use much more cam if you want to turn some rpm.

Back to your original post

How much does your truck weigh?
What gear in the rearend?
Will you be running power brakes? - affects cam choice if you change

700r4 has a lower first gear that TH350/TH400 with a larger gear drop between 1-2, you'll spend quite a bit building a strong 700r4 and stall converters are pricy.

 

No. Off-make roller tips. GM original were all stamped. The roller rockers will not clear stock valve covers unless you use multiple gaskets or aluminum spacer shims. Poor looks to go with lousy oil control.

 

Hey, what were the letters on the water pump pad? just interested.

 

I think this is what you are asking for. It is "TI206S".

 

Yes, the S and the L362 (Dec, third week of production, 1962, when block was cast) means that the block was out of a 1963 impala with a pg trany and no ac (SA), Sorry, Im an Impala nut.

 

SA? Where do you get the Impalla part? The L362 part I get.
How is the TI206S decoded? Was this a 250hp motor?

 

Don't worry about what it WAS. Because it's no longer whatever it was with all the good parts that're in and on it now. And NOW is what you should care more about

 

I could care less. Just curious and trying to learn. My youth was spent working on Ford trucks and Mustangs. My older brother had a 69' Camaro so he was the Chevy guy. I always fooled with Ford cars. Recently, I bought a C5 Corvette and I own a Dodge truck. Kind of like them all now ; ) I'm just trying to lean some stuff about the SBC motors.

 

870 casting was the block of choice for a 120 th , 301cu...

 

it "WAS" the 250 for sure,

the 300 hp auto was an SB I "think" (250 hp standard, R code, 300hp RB) you could not get a 300 hp with both standard and ac, you could get ac on a auto with 300hp, code SC, but you typically had to order the "EXTRA" comfort and conveiniance package that was the 63 AM-FM radio, tilt steering wheel, and Cruse control to get it. I dont know for sure but I think Power windows was also required.

 

Ya' know, I wouldn't have any problem running a good set of O.E. Chev rocker arms with no more cam than that little 327 has. Then there's not worries about anything breaking, etc.

Not being a chev guy, I'm not up on what brands are good or not, but speaking in generalities, I'd rather run an orig. part than a no-name POS that someone imported based soley on price.

As far as did you get a good deal... that depends on how good the engine is, doesn't it? The word 'rebuilt' is used for anything that has seen the inside of a shop.

The guy who 'did the work' could have done a little or a lot. I'd look for the receipt. Also, I'd call him up. He should be able to give you the 411 on this; it's five min of his time, and it was a paying job. Most engine builders are pretty happy to talk about their work.

Every engine is full of compromises, front to back. Maybe rules, budget, fuel type, parts availability, originality, whatever - there's always balances. Talk to the guy who did it, find out where they were at with things.

Did they gap rings, or just use 'pre-gapped[ set? Did they turn the crank, bore the engine, or was this a ring-n-bearing? Was it balanced? Forged pistons or cast? New rod bolts? Magged rods and crank? I wouldn't ever make any assumptions about what's been done.

Make damn sure you find out what the CR is.

If you decide to run this engine as-is, make sure you put a compression tester on it; make sure it wasn't assembled as 11:1, and going to have 215# of cranking pressure. You might have some issues with pump gas if that were the case...

Even if a guy is very skilled, and has a big reputation, he might just freshen up a pretty good running shortblock and install the customer's heads. Having a name doesn't mean that everything you do is necessarily high end.

I'd say that if the machine work is good, it's a really good deal.

Additionally, I'll add this only because you did post up asking opinions... I'd yank that cam out and deep-six (or ebay) it. Big seat duration, wuss lift and modest .050 numbers. There are lots of cams that will run way better. And work with LT-1 springs and the other valvetrain.

I'm not familiar with that intake; they may be better than I think, but I'm thinking the PO may have chose it soley to fit under the hood of a 'Vette, and fit in with an old-school look..

Is your 'binder a 1/2 ton? If so, I'd put a loose convertor in with the 700R4, run some 4.30 or better gears, ditch that intake for a Vic Jr, add a big edelbrock AVS, and go several steps more butch on that cam. Actually, since you're sticking it in a pickup, you might just throw that intake back on until you come across a good deal on an older tunnel ram. Don't let anyone kid you, they work real well on the street.

A half-ton pickup don't weigh a lot, you'll have so much gear coming out of the hole that all the pussies who worry about low-end power will see your taillights. 3000 rpm stall and a 3.06 first gear covers a LOT of sins...

With a .70 overdrive, a set of 4.88's looks like 3.42's; that's a VERY tame overall drive ratio for a 327. Hell, with tall (30-31") tires, you might consider 5.13's or even 5.38's if you run across 'em cheap. With the overdrive and tall tires, that works out like 3.08-3.23:1 gears and no OD with 26" tires.

My .02: go with what this engine's strengths are; don't try to make it a tractor engine - don't saddle it with wuss gears and convertor. And wouldn't it be a giggle to spank some cars with 350 and 383 engines with a little 327?

-Bill

 

Would these heads flow enough to work well with a tunnel ram intake?
Let's say I did swap the cam for a bit nastier one. Then added a tunnel ram intake and Holley carb. What kind of HP could I get out of this little motor?
First post shows what was done and used. I was told that the block was not decked and there is about a 16th" from the top of the TRW pistons and the deck surface. 10:1 or 10.5:1 CR is what he estimated.

 

the block was clearly not decked, as the numbers are still on the water pump pad.

 

Im a little concerned that the tight duration of the cam coupled with "pop up" pistons will give you a cranking compression that will be too high for todays pump gas.
The last set of 492 angle plug heads that I measured actually had true 64CC chambers which would put you closer to 11:1.
Ive got a similar cam in a 350 with 9.5:1 compression (145 psi cranking) and it barely avoids detonation.
A "nastier" cam will bleed off more cylinder pressure and make the combo more liveable, the tunnel ram will make it fall on its face unless you have the gears, converter, and tuneup to back it up, and even then the low end will be marginal, get the rpms up before you stick your foot in it!

 

Here's an updated list of cyl. head casting numbers... Guess I was wrong that chevy had an earlier set of angle plug heads that came out before the 492 castings.... Sorry for misleading ya's. http://www.kendrick-auto.com/chevrolet_head_casting_number_re.htm This is a very cool list by the way... Enjoy!

 

Uh, you never rode in my truck. It drove pretty nice with a fairly mild engine and TR. I've been there - done that. And I ain't nobody special; if I can do it, lots of guys can.

If you re-read my post, I recommended an older one (smaller plenum and longer runners); something like that with a pair of 390's will run great. A sheetmetal intake with two 4500's off of a Comp eliminator car will run like a pig below 2K on that little 327 Both are tunnel rams, but...

Hey Maiden, you got to hold them heads up to the computer screen for us to see... All kidding aside, a set of 2.02 heads with some cleanup should work fine.

Since you posted on a HOT RODDING forum, asking about " a good street ripping combo", I'm throwing this stuff out on the supposition that you're building a hot rod, and not some vaginized thing that will pull a 4000 lb. vehicle with a stock convertor, TH400, and 3.08's.

If you want to do that, quit fuckin' around and buy a big block.

I'm guessing that the heads are good (good valve job; nothing silly done), with the right cam and 10:1 compression, good ring seal, etc. that you could end up with somewhere between 350-400 HP at the crank. That's with the carb(s) sorted out, the ignition timing right, cold air going into the carbs, open headers, etc. Everything just right.

A buddy of mine had an 8.5:1 350 out of a taxi that he refreshened, and ported the heads on.. installed a big crower flat tappet street cam (hydraulic IIRC); made right about 400 HP with a single 4bbl. But, he's a very savvy individual, and spent a lot of time massaging all those 'nothing special' pieces.

Choked upt with iron manifolds, 2-1/4" exhaust, quiet mufflers, breathing hot underhood air; the jets a little off, the timing too far advanced... well, your hot 327 could get schooled bad by a stock 5.0. It's largely in how well you tune it, and making everything (CR, cam, heads, intake, exhaust, convertor, gear, and tire) work together.

So, go with some deep gears (probably run your truck's stock rear end for a while if budget is tight; most old trucks have four-something r&p's), a somewhat loose convertor (and don't wuss out); full-length headers with at least 2-1/2" pipes (3" would be better); you'll have something that'll make enough power that traction will become a real issue.

Sort THAT out, and you'll be ahead of where I am with my project (right now ) Actually, my little pickup is kind of a study in what NOT to do... one of those DAMHIK deals.

So, what would you end up with, performance wise?
http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html

Shoot an email to me at bill@thecarfarm - dot - com; I've got a copy of a spreadsheet a guy on moparts did to help with the compression ratio vs. cam.

-Bill

 

BTW, I looked up some Comp cams; for a shelf grind, an XE274H-10 would probably work pretty well, and IF you have to change springs, you should be able to get by with a drop-in type spring.

With 230 @ .050 on the intake, ground on 110, installed on 105, should give a cranking pressure of 172# or so with 10:1 CR in a 327; 182 with 10.5.

That's a very mild, streetable cam, if you run a good convertor, 3.06:1 first, and good gears out back. It'll idle a little choppy, but shouldn't take anything special maintenance-wise.

-Bill

 

No, Ive never "ridden" in your truck and all I was saying is that it may run like a pig until you get the whole combination sorted out and that a tunnel ram on the street takes a lot of trial and error to get sorted out. Your combo might have run "nice" but was it optimum??You say you have been there, done that and you are nobody special...well most of us are nobody special...just people trying to answer a guys question with their own real world experience. Why do you feel the need to sway my comments towards your truck...I dont know what you have and wasnt talking to you!
If you have ever compaired a single 4bbl hirise to a tunnel ram on the street, you would realize that the TR will take a lot of tuning to even get close to its driveability. Who even mentioned 2 4500's and a sheet metal intake on a 327...Im talking about a edelbrock TR1Y and a 750. If you had ever sorted out a holley/tunnel ram combo using a wideband o2 meter (or the seat of your pants) you would see how different the fuel curve is with a tunnel ram.
Why tell the guy "If you want to do that, quit fuckin' around and buy a big block" when he is asking about a small block that he is (in my opinion) getting a good deal on? And then you finish your post with "Actually, my little pickup is kind of a study in what NOT to do... "
What the fuck?? Make up your mind!

 

Well, it's pretty easy to see that it would be easier to swap the cam with the motor out than in. It's going to be a while before I get to the point of actually mounting the motor so maybe I will swap the cam before hand. I would rather not fool with the heads and leave them as is. I may swap the intake as well to give me more options on a carb. The Offy intake was port matched to the heads. If I get another intake, I'm not going to port match it. Should I just stay with the Offy?
With that in mind, any suggestions on a cam?

 

You can change to a million combos. Whether or not you "feel" the changes, you WILL feel the expense. Short and simple.....leave everything alone, except get a cheap used Edelbrock Performer intake manifold (NOT Performer RPM), and have fun. I've seen em as low as $35. But, you should have no issues finding one for $50. They're everywhere

 

I agree, seems the PO of the engine built it as a combination..i/e he meantioned port mathing the heads and blending the bowls...he didn't say "fully ported/etc", so no reason (IMO) to assume he built a 12 to 1 motor, and is running sucha small cam...

My guess (as lift of the cam was mentioned before) the roller tipped rockers are 1.6 ratio...probably where he making up for the lack of lift with the cam

Groucho, only thing I question about your previous reply is why just performer intake, and not the RPM performer? I've run both on the same SBC and seemed (but dyno) topull a bit longer with the RPM performer as opposed to th Performer.

 

I feel the Perfomer will be better on low RPM performance. That's something that sure won't hurt the shorter stroke of the 327. As much as people want the big power of the bigger manifold, fact is, most these motors spend most their lives under 3000 RPM, where I believe the straight Performer would be a bit crisper. The fact I see em everywhere cheap (used) comes into play as well

 

I see what you're saying....read what you're saying and understand

 

Is there a specific model I look for? Will one from a 350 work? Or are they specific? Can I keep the oil spout? Love that Old School look.

 

No. But look at this on Ebay and see if you can live with it. It's a pretty decent compromise, inexpensive, and has the spout.
320553857816

Or the harder to find and more expensive would be the Edlebrock C-4B or C-3BX

 

And you'll have to run a small diameter distributor with these, no stock HEI.
Larry T

 

What is the advantage of this one over the Offy I have on the motor now? Carb choices? Performance?