Another trick so you don't have to suspend the weight of a big pieces, it to use a piece of heavy duty fiberglass window screen, it lets the line of sight to the anode work, and keeps the piece from shorting.
Don't do this on any crucial suspension parts, this process can cause hydrogen embridlement which can cause parts under stress to crack or fail. Just a word of warning.
2MANYTOYS - And why SHOULDN'T you use stainless? It lasts a lot longer than steel, and doesn't crud up as much... ZOMBIE HOT ROD - This process does NOT cause hydrogen embrittlement. Soaking in phosphoric acid for a prolonged amount of time does...
A buddy of mine does it with a battery charger and a plastic dish pan. He uses TIDE laundry shop ..it works.
I used a stainless bucket, ended up with a ring of pinholes in the bucket at the surface of the solution. Adjust the washing soda concentration to change the amount of current draw. 2-5 amps seems to work well, doesn't overtax the charger. And do it someplace with good ventilation, fumes can be a bit nasty.
I wrote this up a while ago, from information I collected from all over the place, I use this method all the time and it works great for me. Container - Plastic or at least non conductive - Big enough to fit your part in without touching the sides or bottom - a lid is nice for when not in use, but keep the lid of when in operation Solution - Use 3 tablespoons of SodiumCarbonate (best) or SodiumBiCarbonate (works as well) for each gallon, more does not improve results - I used 2 lbs of SodiumBiCarbonate for 45 gallons (cost is $0,67 per lbs) - Solutions gets dirty and cloudy, but does not have to be replaced, just add water as it evaporates - When done, just pour it on the grass, your grass will like the high iron content fertilizer, don't pour in near trees or shrubs or in the wife's flower bed. Power Supply - Battery charger at 24v seems to work best (golf cart or forklift) - Battery charger set to low, in series with a car battery works very well, this is what I use in my 45 Gallon tub - Welding power supply works well, but puts a lot of heat in the part which is wasted energy - Starter cables are a good way to get the power from the battery (with charger in series) to the solution - The required power is a function of the size of the electrodes, about 200milli amp per sq inch is what I've been able to find as optimal, above that no improvement is seen. Anode - DO NOT USE STAINLESS STEEL. the solution gets some chromium stuff in it and will be hazardous material that will bring the HAZMAT crew out and put you and your family in the hospital. - good results with mild steel, rebar mesh works well - Clean regularly - This will dissolve over time and rust will accumulate here - Clean regularly (just hose it down) - I used a bunch of rebar welded together and clamped to the side of the container. - This is where the positive (+) cable from the power supply goes - If the Anode is spread evenly around the inside of the container you'll get the best results - The best results are obtained when the Anode and Cathode are of similar surface area. - Carbon is the best Anode and the removed rust doesn't attach to it, so it doesn't require cleaning. Cathode - must be clean of grime, dirt and oil - Any ferrous metal will work - Connect to the negative (-) cable from the power supply - I hand mine from a piece of rebar using a piece of steel wire (don't use aluminum or copper) and put the cable clamp on the rebar, this allows me to do multiple pieces at the same time. - Parts with line of sight from the Anode will have rust removed first, then it will start to work on the rest of the rust - After you take the part out of the solution do not let it dry, wash it with dishwashing liquid, running water and a soft brush immediately, dry and cover with your favorite rust prevention agent. - When you remove parts form the liquid they will flash rust immediately! WARNINGS: - DO NOT PUT STAINLESS STEEL in as the anode, very dangerous!!!, HAZMAT team required. - Chemical reaction produces hydrogen and oxygen in sufficient quantities to cause explosions. Do this outside or in a well ventilated space!!! You have electricity (sparks) and highly explosive gasses here, be careful. - Make sure the Anode and Cathode NEVER touch, you'll have a short circuit Common issues - Nothing happens: is the Cathode (the part you are trying to remove the rust from) attached securely to the power supply? remember rust doesn't conduct electricity, you may have to scrape a part clean before the process will start. - The solutions gets very hot: Too much power. - The process is very slow. Too little power or not enough Sodium(bi)Carbonate. I've cleaned everything from stuck water pumps that looked like a block of rust to tools and it seems to work well on all.
I did several pieces including hte inner fenderwells for my '55 Merc using this process. If you power supply is getting hot you have a short and this is not good. We had a plastic 4 foot cubic tank from an industrial place. I burned up 2 power supplies before I learned to use an insulator in case the part falls. I used coathangers to dangle the part in the solution and they became part of the sacrifical metal network and eroded away. The insulator I found was a piece of 3/8" plastic sheet with 1" holes in it. I lined the tank sandwiching the rod and between the insulator and the tank. The battery charger pictured above is great for this work because it has short protection. CLEANING the part when it is removed is very important. There is a residue that is left from the soda solution that you must remove before painting. The parts WILL begin rusting immediatly after you remove them so plan well.
To tell if the process is working look at the solution. After a few minutes of operation there will be tiny bubbles forming if it is working.
I've read an equal amount of stuff that says it it does and that it doesn't, so if there is a 50/50 chance of my spindles breaking off on the highway at 70mph, I'll lean towards the 50% chance that what I've read about hydrogen embriddlement is true.
DO NOT USE STAINLESS STEEL ANODES! Hexavalent Chormium is nasty stuff... unless you like dead. Both the steel and SS produce hydrogen, so don't put a lid on the container so that your dumbass neighbor who smokes walks over, opens the lid to see what's going on and it goes pop/boom and blows his face off.
That's a true fact! My new rig works like a champ. I used 1/2 box of the soda for 40 gallons of water; the system drew 5 amps on the ten amp setting of the battery charger. After about two hours, this Chevy hood latch panel came out pretty nice. I cleaned it with an SOS pad and water after it came out of the tank. The panel was pretty crusty before it went in. The actual latch pieces were not line of sight so they will need more work. pigpen
WORKS GREAT! Largest piece I have done is the quarter panels of my '30 model A. Use plenty of metal............. Contact me if you have any doubts on how to use it. I can tell you what I have done. You can view my results on http://myks30.webs.com Good luck, Mike
Do I have to use some kind of sodium carbonite? I talked to a guy who said all he did for his running boards was put them in a 55 gallon drum of plain water, hook up the cables and turn on his charger. Will this work or was he blowing smoke? I have some soda left over from soda blasting. That should work....right???
1951fordf100.................. Do some searching, Brother..............Tons of info about the subject.................. And, I think you need laundry soda, not sodium bicarbonate.............
ive been using this for years works great!!! ive always wanted to do a swimmin pool and put car bodies in it hahaha. if anyone wants me to explain eveything u need to do this just pm me
Found this thread while searching on this subject saw where guys were asking where to get carbon rods so here is my 2 cents. I liked the idea of using the carbon rods because of the "will not rust as soon as the piece hits the air" factor so I went on a search for them. Found out that welding supply stores sell them. They come by the box and the 3/4" dia. ones as used in a post on this thread are expensive. The most common are 3/8" dia. X 12", come 50 to a box and are $20.00 or less. They are copper coated but this peels off very easy (see attached pic). I drilled the rod with a 15/64" drill bit and used 14 gauge solid copper wire, this is a very snug fit, long enough to use wire nuts and wire to connect three of them together around a 5 gal bucket. I then used spring clamps to hold them to the bucket sides. Three of the rods seems to be the right amount to use with my trickle charger on the 2 amp setting. I did four of my body side Model A Sedan door hinges at one time. They were very rusty and it took about eight hours for the process to work. I then used a small stainless steel brush to clean the black residue off. After completely drying themI let them sit for two days and they did not rust as stated in the post by the guy who used cabon rods. I wanted to try this process to clean my window regulators door latches. I like it because I can be doing something while the process is doing its job. The pics show the rods and how they attach to the bucket ( the one I took a pic of is the one with charger lead attached to it). Also I found the " Arm & Hammer Laundry Soda" at Krogers for $2.69 a box.
Started on a bike tank today, have done a few. I use the power supply from a PC rather than a battery charger. Seemed to me like when the anode got real dirty it'd kick my little charger off. The power supply it just keeps putting out. That and it doesn't seem like I ever use my little charger till it's tied up doing a tank.
I did some experimentation with various types of things. I like the electrolysis thang best. I have a sandblaster but sometimes get sick of digging sand out of my orifices. This just bubbles away quietly and the rust 'boils' off. The black coating left behind is carbon, which didn't rust. The other nice thing is that everything on top of the rust like grease and paint also comes off. http://members.shaw.ca/pekpress/BatteriesAndRust.html
quote from bjinxFound this thread while searching on this subject saw where guys were asking where to get carbon rods so here is my 2 cents. I liked the idea of using the carbon rods because of the "will not rust as soon as the piece hits the air" factor so I went on a search for them. Found out that welding supply stores sell them. They come by the box and the 3/4" dia. ones as used in a post on this thread are expensive. The most common are 3/8" dia. X 12", come 50 to a box and are $20.00 or less. They are copper coated but this peels off very easy (see attached pic). I drilled the rod with a 15/64" drill bit and used 14 gauge solid copper wire, this is a very snug fit, long enough to use wire nuts and wire to connect three of them together around a 5 gal bucket. I then used spring clamps to hold them to the bucket sides. Three of the rods seems to be the right amount to use with my trickle charger on the 2 amp setting. I did four of my body side Model A Sedan door hinges at one time. They were very rusty and it took about eight hours for the process to work. I then used a small stainless steel brush to clean the black residue off. After completely drying themI let them sit for two days and they did not rust as stated in the post by the guy who used cabon rods. I wanted to try this process to clean my window regulators door latches. I like it because I can be doing something while the process is doing its job. The pics show the rods and how they attach to the bucket ( the one I took a pic of is the one with charger lead attached to it). Also I found the " Arm & Hammer Laundry Soda" at Krogers for $2.69 a box. These rods are for "scarfing" cutting out a bad weld, used in heavy fab shops, if the weld has porosity it needs cut out, these are faster than grinding, real nasty process but real effective. ArcAir seems to be the main brand Ive used them at work <!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
Any ideas if the carbon rod helps with embrittlement? I have some suspension pieces. Id like to use this but will not do it if it weakens the part, Ill have to get them blasted or try vinegar or molasses
You can also you plain old baking soda. Bake it at 400* on a cookie sheet for at least 30 minutes. It makes it give up some extra molecules and becomes what you want. I buy a 5lb box and bake the whole thing, then bag the extra for later.
Too many amps means too much electrolyte. you should be pulling about 7 amps, if I remember right. Start with pure water and add your electrolyte a little at a time until you get up to 6 or 7 amps.
I too tried the expensive Rustbeeter. It worked. $35 dollars worth made a 2 gallon jug of the stripper. So I went to Rural King Farm Store, bought a 50 gallon heavy duty rodent proof container with lid made of recycled material it cost $19.99 Also bought 40 pound of Beet Pulp (horse feed) with molassis that cost 14.99 Total cost $35 + tax. Now it works on much larger items. It does the job on rust just like rustbeeter. Niether one will take off the old paint. If you want to also remove old paint on the parts use Electrolisis. I mix with Lye drain cleaner. I do small stuff in a old stainless steel kitchen 2 gal pot. Connect positive to the pan and negative to the part to be stripped. This too will work. It is faster than Beet juce but only works line of sight.
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