Alright, I'm new been lurking, searching, reading. But I have to ask a question. Apples to oranges. I had a 49' Ford coupe had a 302 C4 setup. Sold it bought a 50' Ford Sedan 239 flathead and 3 speed. I liked the 302 in the 49' but don't know what to expect out of this flathead with a little work up. I'll spend the money if its worth it, but if its not gonna have any power after a gaggle of money and time I'm gonna dump it and just set it in my shop (motorcycles) it'll look real nice next to my knucklehead! So do I just small block it? I like the flathead, don't know a thing about'em, but don't know if I'm expecting to much out of it. Not expecting a tire burning racer out of it, but to pull the hills here in Colorado, and be able to stay in the fast lane (not only because my turn is coming up)! Little help to the FNG please. Thanks. And before everyone jumps my sh%t, I have been reading, searching and pm'd a few guys, just looking for a little interaction here, I'm sure its been beat to death, and if you've answered it a few hundred time I can appreciate that, don't waste your time, but thanks in advance
just from reading that, you'll probably be more happy with a small block. flatheads are amazing, very cool, traditional, and sound like nothing else-but they are not exactly power houses, and you will be surprised how much even a gaggle of money won't buy you in the speed department. that being said-my vote is still for a FLATTY.
My problem is I'm drawn to old motors (Harley, triumph, bsa, etc.) I know it wont have the same power, and maybe the only one to answer whether or not I'll be happy with it is me, but can it be built reliable to cruise the mountains, run the highway. My biggest thing is they sure do look nice all dressed up! Maybe its more in the gearing that would make me happy?
Here's your answer....The SBC is cheap and makes good power. Speed parts within a stones throw too. The Flatty is WAY cooler and traditional, like said above though, speed parts are pricey and aren't going to provide much power. Have you considered a vintage baby hemi? They are not that hard to find. To rebuild it won't cost much more than the flattie, but you can get that power you are looking for. Vintage look, and power = Hemi. Food for thought....
That is a cool motor, might have to find one and build a truck around it. Need one for the shop anyway. It might be lame and a problem I just haven't gotten over yet but I'm still a ford in a ford, chevy in a chevy kinda person. No real reason why just preference for me, but that motor is cool enough to find and start another project. Shit bikes are easy to store a bunch of, where do I start putting all these cars! Definetly agree vintage look and power though.
Climbing mountains and running the highways at highways speeds (75mph+) for more than a few miles? 302/C wins on the safety factor alone. Cruising around town with the occasional road trip where your in no hurry and can afford the extra time for travel and other flatty issues? Then the flat motor gets the vote on cool factor. A 200+hp flathead is something to brag about. A 200hp 302 is something to cry about and for what it costs to build a 200hp flatty you can build a VERY nice 400+hp 302 stroker and have lots of gas and beer money left over. Its all in what you like and what the intended application is. The flat motor is very cool but for those same reasons I put a Y-block in my '48 Ford. Y-blocks are cool but but not as cool as the flat motors...however with twice the HP, more reliabilty and better mileage for less money the Y got the nod for me. Another non SBC, non-flatty, non-hemi option for you to consider. -Bigchief.
I like the Y-block idea, what trans are you running behing it? Having not looked at prices, are the affordable to build? Google some pics and it looks like they can be dressed up pretty nice and not look like all the others. Viable option, I'll look into that more, thanks for your input.
I believe he is contemplating another SBF rather than a sbc. Smchop I think it fully depends on how you plan to drive the car. If you are happy with a very cool looking and sounding engine that is comfortable at 55/60 or so on the highway and maybe higher speeds once in a while the flathead will work fine and maybe be able to run with the big dogs with the right gearing and engine setup. If you like to run 70 and above for hours on end and make miles with little and or no trouble I'd go with the small block something and maybe an overdrive automatic. I put somewhere close to 100,000 miles on the 51 Merc I had with a 350 Olds in it. Daily driver, rod trot somewhere in the North West most weekends and I pulled a 15 ft travel trailer with it quite a bit. No maintenance problems and I don't remember ever having a valve cover off of it in the time I had it in the car. The engine had absolutely no cool factor as it was a 72 two barrel engine. It did take the 51 to the mid 16's at the high school drags when I let my cousin's son race it and he won his class with it. So I have to say that it comes down to whether you would rather have the "cool" engine in the car or just a boring old later model engine that will run with the big dogs, pull and ac unit if necessary and not need much more than normal daily driver car maintenance to make it happy. The flathead can always be saved for another project to come later too.
Mr48chev, I do want a daily driver, not afraid to do alittle work and upkeep on it. Fer christsakes I love older harleys, but they can be built to a middle of the road and still keep up without alot of headache. I guess thats what I'm trying for. It will be an around town car occasional highway, cruiser at 60. I understand not having that cool factor in a modern standard sbf/c and am ok with that if that is the most viable option. I'm having a little trouble crossing the line motorcycle to cars comfort zone. I can put my bike on a lift and work away, not so with cars (lifts, jacks, hoists, etc.) So I am a little intimidated by them, but love them. Its only the first one, mistakes will be made, lessons learned but would like to be on the right track to start. Thanks.
Good words from mr48 chevy..if you like "traditional rods someday you will have to do a flathead. I've probably built 10 flathead motors for cars through the years. Thought I was over them when I started my last hiboy but succumbed one last time with a blown 276ci flattie. Nice, but Sydney Allen in Tex. owns it now. I think I'm cured. Suggest you wait a while and concentrate on the car building part initially.
Thanks Bill Van Dyke, have to stew on it for awhile. That is a beautiful car, motor looks amazing. With the input I received tonight, I'm gonna take your last words and pay some attention to the car and think about motor suggestions and Mr48chev input and maybe a few things will unfold for me that way. Thanks all!
I am no expert, but I have to agree with scrap metal 48. And they are traditional, just have to do the build the right way. You don't want a 40's era car with a SBC, it just doesn't look right. After 55 they were the way to make a car for a long time. Also, there are some great early speed parts that look great under a traditional car. They don't sound as cool as a flathead though, must say that.
I've seen this question before and I will always say Flathead! But then I will aways say do what you feel it's your car afterall.
Good words of wisdom here - just about says it all. I would pick flathead, hands down myself, as much of what you are talking about building and driving comes down to gearing. Build a flattie with a WC 5-speed and a 3:73 or 4:11 rear and you'll burn the hides regardless of whether you've only got a 100HP motor in it. As for long distance, I'm from Willimasburg, VA and I just drove my flattie/5-speed powered 40 coupe to Goodguys Rhinebeck and back @ 70MPH. It's been there 5 times now, several more up to LI, once to Florida and many, many trips in between, most all at between 18-20MPG w/3:50 rear. Running a flattie is about doing it when others say you can't or you shouldn't, or it's not fast enough, it overheats, etc, etc. There are many, many ways to run a flattie nicely, at speed, for long distances, and you can still burn the hides. Sure you can run an SBF cheaper but where's the challenge in that? Picture this - someone looks at your license plate at a show and you are states away from home - now pop the hood. They see you're running a flattie and most won't believe you drove it. And/or go burn rubber in 1-2-3 gears, they find out it's a "lowly" 100HP flattie and they can't believe it. Finally fire it up and let them hear that sweet sounding engine - they all go nuts, drop their teeth, and your smile can hardly fit on your face ... Now THAT"S what makes running a flattie really, really cool .... priceless ....
SBC crate engine (330 hp) $3500.....Cool factor, LOW. 200 hp flathead engine. $7000+.....Cool factor, HIGH.
What makes you think he's looking for an expensive challenge rather than a moderately priced, reliable, relatively modern engine to power his car?
I'm running a Tremec T170FT-RTS. Mine is an OD box commonly found in early-mid 80's Ford trucks. They share common parts with the RUG toploaders. They have an aluminum case with a top mounted shift tower putting the shifter in the right spot for an early hotrod. The Ford trannies are OD boxes and the ones found in Jeeps are not. Gear spacing from a performance standpoint is compromised on these as they are basically a three speed with a "oh, yeah....I need OD too" fourth gear. They drive, well....like a truck. They are not a total bolt on deal as some machine work and welding is necessary to make it work with the Y-block bellhousing. The bolt pattern on these transmissions is like the later toploader so the truck belhousing I used needed machinework and welding and the bearing retainer OD needed to be turned down and its sprout sleeved to work with my (larger) truck throwout bearing. I did it this way because the trans was basically free and I was able to do the mods myself. A T5 or even a C4 or AOD automatic are probably better options behind the Y-block if you've got the funds. -Bigchief.
T-5 is what I run behind my Y and yes it is an easy fit with few mods to the trans and bell. You need a three speed truck bell for the Y to start and any Late '80s, up to '92 I believe, T-5 out of a Mustang or T-bird will do, the turbo four will work but the V6 and V8 trans are beefier. If you or a friend has access to a machine shop you can do all the mods yourself.
If the Flattie you have is in good shape, then dress it up and run it. If it's shot, then swap the SBF, or Y-Block, or BBF.
Knucklhead owner already, you can appreciate yours vs the EVO's. The EVO owners get there before you do, without problems, and they out number you 10,000 to 1, yet you still have your Knucklhead. You seem like the kind of guy, that can truely appreciate the Flathead. It will cost more to get any real horsepower, it will not let you forget it, but yet, it still seems like the right choice for a few of us. Stay true to thyself.
With the Ford small block stroker kits you can get a nice 408 425 hp 351 w for 5500.00, theres no need to use that chevy engine anymore, run a Ford and be proud of it.
i love flatheads but lately i,ve seen more the sbc,s and sbf,s run good but not much to look at you seem to like old school so i would go with a y-block or a old,s, or a caddy or a sbc dress like or better a 283 early hop-up any of them will give good power and cool factor just my 2 cents some pictures of motors
I guess its dollars and cents.... flattie's are beautiful, but as stated have drawbacks. Sbf's are more modern...and look it, but make more hp. So....what is most impt, the look and sound or ponies...... I got a project with each so... But if i could find another flattie....
Follow your heart my friend . . . seems it has already told you where to go with that Knucklehead. Wouldn't you also just love to have a KR race bike - ready to rock . . . expensive - sure, turns some heads - you bet. Sounds unique - yep. Costs more than most HD motors in a crate - yep. Personally, I like to build things that can't be bought in boxes, crates or in speed-shop windows. Do flatheads take more time to learn about (if you're new) . . . yep, can they be a pain in the ass until you learn their ways . . . yep, will they have as much HP as a stock SBC . . . nope. Are they really any harder to build than any other engine -- not really, once you know them. Can they be as reliable as any other WELL built engine - sure, no reason why not. Can you power that car of yours any dang place you need to go - as fast as you dare to go, yep. I'm a fringe player . . . being part of the "norm" and the pack is not my gig -- seems you're about the same (but that is one big ass guess on my part!). Once you have one nice flathead in your pocket . . . you'll understand everything I just preached. Just like your knucklehead - one fine piece of machinery . . .
I'm goin' flathead, try the T5 behind it, build it reliable, make it pretty and enjoy it for what it is. It does run pretty good now and it's a damn fine looking motor (what I enjoy most about it) unique sound.....that's it. I'll build another car or motor with a car around it, to get my fix on hp, I do like those Y-blocks! Anyone got a Edmunds 2x2 intake to go with my heads? Thanks all for your input, didn't read one reply and brush it off without thought, that I appreciate! But like my knuckle, I am lucky to own it, and will enjoy that flathead. Time to start the ramen diet and kids get no new shoes, dad's building a flathead.....
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