I put a 66 289 in my 31 roadster. Used Snow White Engineering short water pump kit which shortens the engine by about two inches from stock. It had a stock frame. Needed a 6 in recessed firewall and short oitl filter. If my current project didn't come with a brand new sbc I would have done it again.
I put a 289 in a Model A truck,,,then I tried to put me in the cab,,,,,I'm over 6 foot,,,if you ain't long legged it will work,,,HRP
I have put two 302-5.0 motors into model A's on 32 ch***ies and DIDN"T cut the firewall. I had a 5.0 and put a early Ford timing chain cover on. Then got a SVO short water pump with standard rotation and the pullies to match( when I did mine I had to make the pullies because they didn't make V-belts,they do now). Then get a off set SVO oilfilter adapter 60 bucks or so. The alt mount is a 1968 Bronco smog pump bracket that will mount it on the low on the bottom of the p*** side, out of sight. Headers I used after trying 7 diffrent companys were Ford motor sport. They dumped in front of the steering box and far enough for the pedals to swing on the floor.. I made the motor mounts and used doughnut mounts.. I have to say it's tight Very tight. about 3/8 to the firewall and 3/4 to the Walker radiator.. I had to use a electric fan and they or I could find one that would fit on the motor at the time.. As far as the Model A with a Model a frame and a 302-5.0 . You have a few options move the radiator/shell forward a bit with a super simple bracket , reverse the stock firewall and or cut it for the 1 1/2 inches.
Is that a fresh .040" bore or a tired .040" bore on that 289. If the latter, you may want to consider a newer/fresher engine. .040" is probably the practical limit for a street-driven SBF, but I suppose you could sonic check your cylinders & go from there (easier to find another block). If you add in the fact you've got the early 5-bolt bellhousing mount-surface on the back of your block, you're doubly advised to find a later/fresher engine. Oil pans use to be a big deal. I still favor the Van pan or Bronco pan, but a fox body pan will work too (I just don't like them) & there are millions of those. The early front sump pan may interfere with your steering/axle setup - depending on how yours is designed. The length issue is way overstated and in my opinion, overshadowed by the narrower width & lighter weight of the SBF over the SBC. Cons? The SBC guys will have one more engine to use.
Hi, I have a 29 c.c.p.u. with a 67 289 with a aod behind it, I'm running a 29 style radiator with a 4 row core, aluminum flex fan, the motor has the short water pump, the fan works well, typically temp tops out at 180 deg. with hot weather into the mid 90's here sitting in traffic or at In-n-Out it will top out at 200 deg., never has overheated on me. the motor has the factory Cobra cast iron headers, the firewall below the gas tank is recessed (I'll have to check that measurement) when it was done they only recessed it in the center to clear the motor and bellhousing, they left the toe boards forward near the stock position, so you don't lose as much legroom. as everybody knows the 29 p.u. cab is small, I'm just s****ing 6' and it's comfortable for me. I'll try to post some pics of the motor and inside the cab.
Whitey I agree with Ernie. Find a stock bore block. They are on ebay on a regular basis for $50-75 and complete engines for $100-250. I picked up two standard bore 289 blocks today for $35 each. (one to build and one to keep as a spare) I would not feel comfortable with a .040 block. I would be concerned about cooling and possible sealing issues.
how much firewall recess is needed? with a short pump , who makes the short water pumps? i'm gettin ready to put a 302 in a 31 A pickup..........
Okay---Somebody clue me in. I have always heard that a small block Ford with stock waterpump is about 3" longer than a small block Chev with the "short" stock waterpump.---Which means that your firewall recess ends up being about 6" or 7" deep instead of the 4" required for a small block Chev, thus creating a real shortage of leg room. ---if you are running a stock model A wheelbase and stock length hood. AND---that small block Fords had the sump for the oil pickup at the front of the pan (Chev had sump in rear)---this means that the stock Ford oilpan and pump and oil pickup tube has to be swapped out for a Bronco pan with the sump in the rear to avoid interfering with the drag link and tie rod. I can not confirm the truth of this, as I have always ran small block chev engines in my cars.
Brian, Ford motor sport has some new parts for the 289-302 and shorten it to about the same size as the SBC with a shotr pump. What is nice the Ford has the Dizzy in front so you can slap the motor right on the firewall.. Were the chevy is a bit out,not much but were talking inches or halves... The oilpan really gives you problems with IFS front end and not really too much with a streight axle. The fox body Mustangs oilpan will work and they repop the bronco pans if you really need one.. I have yet to use one on a traditional Axle rod. You'll be amazed with the new goodies FMS has come up with. The draw back is the cost of the goodies waterpump 150 or so,oilfilter 90 60clams, pullies 80 clams. You have to change to a older style timing chain cover and pretty easy to find. You'll have to get the Ford Motor Sport Headers and I'll tell you why. I bought 5 set of headers from 5 different companys and they all dumped in a bad spot.. You don't have much room on the drivers side. The steering box,motor mount,headers and oilfilter are right in the way. The FMS dumps in the back a bit and were you can still get you brake pedal to swing or clutch. Also have room for a vega box and a donut type motor mount. It's wicked tight but when done looks great and with that said it can be done. thanks John
glad to hear you fix the flathead nothing looks cooler then a flat head dress up sbf or sbc niether as cool has your flathead
I'm glad to hear the flattie's fixed. I have a 1931 Model A Tudor Sedan (see Avatar). It has a 302 (stroked to 331) with a T-5. I have the '94 and newer pump and timing cover (it was the shortest I could afford). I have a front sump Canton road race pan on it. I am not having clearance problems to the pan. We set the firewall back more than we needed to, by alot (somebody read the tape wrong, but that's another subject). It's a *****in products firewall (money or time, we had no time) and there's approximately 4 inches from the firewall to the back of the block. I have independent suspension in it (TCI). Hope that helps.
Ne**ussian, love to see a few pictures of the sedan. She looks like a sweet ride and must scoot pretty darn good too!!
Yeah, she would definitely 'fly low'. I am going down at the end of this week to put the new(er) engine in it (damn ****py Cali gas well, a bad load of it doesn't help either). I will make a point of it to get some pictures while we are screwing the new lump in it (saved SOME parts, so it's still a 331). It has the serpentine setup on it (necessitated by the water pump) so don't expect to see V belts.
No Belts HA HA HA I got a streetrod too just kidding . We're going to do another this fall /winter for my buddy. He's a muscle car guy going into a hotrod. Its a 31 sedan with a 347 stroker motor with fullfenders and hood,well hope to fit hood? So got a bunch of motorsport goodies and so we're gonna squezzzz it in with a shoehorn.. But were going V-belt
Continentaljohn---Thank you for confirming most of what I have "always known".---I put "always known" in quotation marks, because its like an urban legend.---Its common knowledge, but not thru my own personal experience.---Brian
Brian, Most was the key word and have bought a bunch of parts " Will fit most applications" or "Universal Fit " That's my experience a corner (pile of ****) in the shop tells the truth . So when is the next build? Soon I hope, dig the Cad goodies!
289 with a ****** out of te V-8 Mustang II. The bellhouseing is much smaller than a standard C-4. Put one in my '27 Roadster on a '29 A frame. Only had to make engine stands and cut out cause I used block hugger headers. You can run a true 289 way up on the RMP scale. I love running them and I compare the to the old SBC 283's. My two cents.......
I'm doing the same thing in my Studebaker truck. It isn't in yet, but what they said about the SBF being long was right on. I am trying a few differrent shortening tricks right now.
I built two Models A's with a 302 for power. Mine (Boss 302) and my sons (reg 302). The only problem you have is the early block - hard to find a bellhousing for them (and I ***ume the auto trans bell). I ran a stock fan, no spacer on the water pump pulley - just cleared the lower pulley. This enables you to get the engine up as far as possible to the radiator, cutting down on the firewall mods.
Back from the dead... This topic ties very closely to my current build and I'd like to ask y'all some questions about 302 fitment in a traditionally styled hot rod. My build is a '30 Model A coupe on Deuce rails. I'll run side steer, lakes headers, and a mechanical fan with '32 radiator/grill. My goal is to minimize firewall clearancing as much as possible. I may move the front crossmember forward an inch, but other than that, I plan on a stock-ish wheelbase of 106"-107". Originally, I was planning on a SBC as it seems to only require distributor clearance at the firewall. I know the SBF is way longer, but as John (continentaljohn) pointed out, Ford has a short pump available that can shorten the overall length of the SBF by 1.5" or so (if you use aftermarket v-belt pullies). And having the distributor up front is nice, too! I guess what I'm wondering is: would I have to hack into the firewall of my car with a SBF fitted with this short pump? If so, how much (approximately)? The main reason I'm considering the SBF is because I think I can get away with less firewall clearance issues with it, but if that's not the case I may reconsider my motor plans. Beyond that, would there be potential fitment issues running a Vega box for side steer? Any clearance issues with lakes headers? Thanks in advance! Tommy
Sorry, Whitey, I know you've long since rebuilt your flattie, but this was the best thread on the topic that I came across. No one can say I don't search before posting!
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