What is an acceptable method to repair cracked sheet metal? My 32 5 window body has lots of cracks in all kinds of places and I'm not really sure how I should deal with them. Most are just single straight ones but others are radiating out from others and jaged, sort of like a lightning bolt. I've never seen cracks like this on other 60's cars I've worked on. I would think that simply welding them all up with a gas torch or TIG welder would do the trick but I've also been told to cut out the cracked areas and graft in new metal which seems like alot of work....but not as much as having to do it all again if the cracks come back! SO, what would you all recommend is a good way to repair cracks in this old Ford tin? I'm also wondering why they cracked so bad. I can see that alot of them are stress cracks due to poor design but I'm also wondering if it's also because of poor metal? The reason I suspect poor metal is because the metal is also cracked in places where I can't see stress being an issue...yet it's cracked...
When repairing old tractor fenders i tack them together with a wire feed and then reinforce them by welding a piece of wire along the lip of the fender. My understanding as to why they crack is a simple matter of load cycles which eventually strain harden the metal causing it to crack. Think of how many times that poor fender has flexed in the wind over the last 80 years!! hope this helps.
The back of the '32 Coupe tops were they meet the rear quarters are subject to cracks. They knew about this in 1932 and the factory offered repairs. There was a thread here on the HAMB about fixing this aera. I's drill a hole at the end of the cracks and TIG or gas weld the cracks, not a MIG fan, way too much grinding and heat.
Thanks guys. I'll try and find that old thread but it sounds like a pretty straight forward fix..except that there are so damn many of them... I just wasn't sure if I had to cut out all the old cracked areas and replace it with new metal so I'm glad to hear that I don't have to go down that road. It would be nice if there was some way to stop the body flex so the cracks don't come back... I never had much luck with a MIG so I never used it much and never got good with it. I cant afford a TIG so I guess my old school acetylene torch will be what I use. Some even say that's prefered but it probably what ever you're used to. Thanks again.
I would gas weld because it will work fine. The heat will soften the work-hardened metal while you weld. If it is a stressed area like a fender bead for example, the metal needs to lay perfect without clamps or 2x4's under the fender to align things. If you did have to hold/force the fender like that just to weld it, then after you pull your supports out, there will be a lot of stress on the repair...it will fail again. In old 30's body repair books, they show how to heat the fender brackets to eliminate stress on a bumped fender. You get the fender blocked up/aligned with whatever, then heat the brackets red hot, then cool. Then the stress on the old cracked area should be gone.
I've heard to drill a small hole at the end of the crack to round it out, so it doesn't spread, then weld. Not sure if its the correct way but sounds good to me.
Drill a little hole at the end of the crack and weld it it up. Probably cracked because the wood that supported the body got loose or is non existant any more. Make sure you either have good wood or that your body has some sort of frame work to support it.
this is the exact method I had been taught and still use works like a charm, unless you find out your cracks are caused by rust, then its fresh metal time
Hey, I'd plan on replacement of some/most of the metal around those cracks. The drilled hole at the end of the crack won't mend those cracks you can't see, but will show up later from the work hardened metal! Squirt gun (mig) welding is for late model collision work, and "bed wettin' moma's boys who think weld, bash & mud " is metalwork! " Meanwhyle, back aboard the Tainted Pork "
The Old Bodies go through years of twisting and bending so you can get cracking in the corners and stress areas. If it's cracking in weird places I.E. roof panels or 1/4's. The body way have been burnt and is work hardened. But it can be fixed. I fixed a 32 Pontiac Coupe and a 34 Chev Coupe that had been burnt, I had to anneal the hard spots. The hard spots will ring compaired to a dull thump when hit. To anneal the MIld Steel warm the area up until the paint turns brown and let it cool on its own. No air No water. Just a slow cool down. The metal should become softer. Then you can hammer and dolly it. Weld the splits with a Torch, drill the ends first. If you have to, make a backup plate to reinforce the area. The only problem with this is it make this area stronger then the next and you end up with a double layer of metal. Look out Rust!! Just some thoughts: The Old Tinbasher
Guys. No matter what the technique, "ALWAYS" stop drill the crack at the terminus (ends) of the crack before you do anything else or it will crack again. I use a 1/8" bit. Skip in Houston
Some photos of the car would be great, a lot better to be an arm chair repair when you can see what you bs about. Drilling a hole is a great idea, also you might need to run a hack saw blade along the crack to get the panels to realign, those parts were stretched out before they tore. If there are a good number of cracks in one are you might be better off replacing a section. Make sure the repair is done correctly and you car will out live you, adding a X brace to the center of the body is a good way to help control some of the movement in the body, and ensuring that the wood in the car is in good condition and you are not forcing the body into shape. The picture below is the standard area that these five windows crack, this car had been repaired some time in the 60's and due to how it was repaired the whole area needed to be removed and replaced. Check out metalmeet or the allmetalshaping sites there is a lot of great info on those sites.
Here are some pics of what I'm dealing with. Something flattened the rear of the roof years and years ago and caved the back of it in which you can better see in the one pic of the whole body. All I've done so far is pull/bend the roof back out so the cracks align and tack in a few spots to hold it in place. Before I carry on though I figured I'd better ask here to make sure I'm doing the right thing and not making matters worse. I haven't stop drilled anything at this point but I will from now on. Just a couple other questions... Does all the old paint and rust need to be removed for a good weld or does it all pretty much "evaporate" in the welding process and be a non-issue? For body structure what do most people use these days....a stock wood kit or a custom made steel structure? Pros and cons of each? I'm sort of a purist so I was just going to buy a wood kit and install it but maybe there are better options? This is a virgin body with no previous repairs and it's never been in a fire so hopefully the repairs will be straight forward. Thanks again.
CLEAN PAINT AND RUST OFF BEFORE WELDING! Also, 32 wood works well, your interior guy will thank you for it.
I'd say between drilling that hole to do the repair and a fully boxed chassis to prevent it happening again. Old chassis would flex too much and with the bad roads something had to give. Even alot of pickup trucks can have the same problem around the cab area due to chassis twist.
You're going to do just fine with OA. Or borrow a tig. Same discipline... Run the torch/stinger with one hand, fill rod with the other. tig is more comfortable, genereates less wasted heat that makes you sweat because when you pause you shut off the heat source with the foot pedal.
Hey Lintman, I'd start this repair with a plan for straightening the top opening to include the wood repalcement. With the reproduction/oem wood pieces at hand, straightening the opening becomes a bend/bump the metal to fit detail. Only after the opening is straight , but before the wood is installed, would I go after the patch panels necessary to clean up this roof. I'm not likin' what I'm seeing in the metal around those cracks, and therefore I'd plan on making up some fist sized patches in the center of those damaged areas. Remember, just because you can weld up the cracks in a panel with that kind of damage, doesn't mean the metal surrounding those cracks is sound. Good welds start with good clean metal, especially gas welds! I'd remove all the paint & rust from those damaged/supected areas & trim or grind into sound, clean metal. "Beware the irrational however seductive "
Definitley clean everything up and I would agree with pimpin I would plan for some patches with that much damage. The other thing when welding is make sure you weld small areas and then get the metal back into shape with hammer and dolly work before moving on so as not to let the warpage of the metal caused by welding get out of hand on you. Good luck and if you decide it is too much for you let me know and I will drive down and take it off your hands for you.
Hey Tinbasher & Rex, That's some good looking 32 repair/replacement metal, there! Was the upper quarter beading/swageing done with a tipping die & cocking tool? " Better by you better than me "
Thanks for the pictures of the cracks, once you get the metal cleaned up and bumped around you will probably want to make some patch panels for the roof area. the rest of the body looks like it is in great shape keep us posted on your progress The upper quarter patch that i made was done with the english wheel and the pulmax was used to put in the belt line. a lot of prestreching in the belt line area with a 1" anvil on the wheel then the pulmax was used to coin the part .
This is not just a crack I would definitely be making a new panel for this or you are just gonna end up chasing your own tail... and I like all the others said take the paint down and rust off before you start welding or it will only get worse
I read in my History of Dodge Trucks book, that sometime in the mid to late 30's, there was an advancement in how steel was made so strees cracks became less apparent.
Thanks again for all your help. I guess I'll make a couple patches then, one for each rear corner. So how far beyond the cracked areas should the patches be....1"...or a couple inches?? Does anyone know of a source for a quality wood kit? I figure that I should get this first and make the body fit the wood rather than fight with it later.
You might try Geroge Moir's Antique Auto Parts in Stony Plain (just outside Edmonton) (780) 963-7334.
Hey, I'd plan at the very least 2''-3'' for cheap insurance! Make up your patch panels @ 3.5''-4'' and trim to fit like a glove. If you're careful, and trim your patches with no gaps, you can fusion weld without any/little filler rod, and finish with a vixon file or single cut bastard file and avoid grinding the welds that may produce hard spots in the metal. I've no leads on a wood kit, but you might consider removal of your remaining wooden pieces, intact, and take tham to a cabinet shop for fabrication. These wooded pieces arn't tricky cabinet work to a good cabinet or millman. I'd go with white ash or maple, but not oak. Looks like a fun project! " Humpty Dumpty was pushed "
Factory LEAD, nobody mentioned it, if there are areas will lead filler remove it before trying to weld that area. That looks like a nice body, take your time fixing it correctly. As mentioned a new wood kit is the way to go and your upholstery guy will be very happy some day.
If Bougus Bob is still around his wood kit are from rock maple and the price is always fair better than most. (559) 299 7120 he is in clovis CA.
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