Put the Zinc back into your oil!

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS226US227&q=oil+zinc+zddp+site:jalopyjournal%2ecom

More info on oil than you care to read - right here on the HAMB

 

no its not......... rotella cj-4 is 1200 ppm ZDDP down from 1300ppm in CI and all the new car "street legal" versons are at 300ppm ZDDP. any oil that conforms to the API standards will have thes contents. the Fleet oils have a higher ZDDP level but in the Diesel viscositys(15-40) the reason the ZDDP levels have been decreased is for catalytic convertor performance and warranty. they can get away with this because ALL the newer gas engines have roller lifters. in time the low ZDDP levels will wipe your cam. put in the additive run a Diesel, Fleet or non api approved oil. or change to a roller cam. Do not run any of the above oils in a new car as the warranty will be voided

 

'zactly! That's what i do. The "new" Rotella still has WAY more zinc than "car oil", and is only 100ppm down from what it ever had. With the STP additive its more than enough zinc.

 

The red and blue STP have a high ZPPD content. Red is a little better.

 

Dum-dum here,...curious to facination with Zinc in oil ...why , what ,when ...years of motors it's needed,etc. You guys way over my head here.

 

Zinc is considered the best for lubing non roller cams. It isn't nessesary on cars with roller cams (mid 80s) & it increases emissions so the car companys had the oil companys eliminate it from car oil. There has been a rash of cam failures reported, mainly with high spring pressures. Is it the lack of zinc, bad cams or lifters? Both? People don't seem to be sure.

 

AH-So...early '08's & earlier need a zinc injection. Does unleaded gas also contribute to these failures? looking at a'64 427 Fairlane. What do I run it on ?

 

I know this is a bit off topic but this stuff is amazing.
If you want to make sure you engine is being lubed properly this is a must. It expensive but I have seen it work. A guy I know took an old worn out Ford inliner and put it on a stand and ran it for a while with fresh oil and the recomended amout of this stuff in it. Then he drained all the oil and took off the valve cover, side plate and the oil pan. Then with no oil or sheet metal on the engine he fired it up. No noise, no smoke, no grinding no nothing. It ran like a top, never got hot, never ate up any berrings and the rocker arms and pushrods were almost silent. I think the engine has almost 1000 hours running on the stand with no oil. And it still runs great and has no noise whatsoever. I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it for myself.

I haven't put it my engine yet but from the tests I saw this stuff is amazing. Expensive but amazing. I think it is at least worth looking into.


http://www.lubricationproducts.com/index.htm

 

And then again maybe the sky isn't falling?

http://www.fmrcoa.org/newsletter/2006/Sept 07 Newsletter_Screen.pdf

It's nice to read a dissenting opinion every once in a while...

 

I would have to agree with him at least on the point he makes that the performance grinds are more susceptible to failure. Keeping in mind there are flat tappets out today that are wilder than some of the older roller grinds.

But then we have had a few failures at work (with the ground support equipment) and those were all O.E. replacement type cams so.

He mentions phosphating the cams, I personally think the $20 or so it costs to Parkerize a flat tappet cam is worth it (***uming you have it out already).

And yes I definitely like to read a dissenting opinion, especially from a credentialed industry rep.

 

Different manufacturers started using roller cams at different times. That's the main factor when you are deciding what oil to use.

The 427 you are mentioning should have a flat tappet cam in it (unless someone went "high dollar" on the engine and put a roller setup in it). When we talk roller cams, we mean roller lifters, not roller rocker arms. You can have an engine with roller rockers that still has a flat tappet cam.
That means you should run oil in it that has zinc content.

Unleaded gasoline is not a factor. That's a separate subject that involves having hardened valve seats installed on the exhaust side of the heads.... or using a lead additive in your gas.

Does that answer your questions?

Malcolm

 

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I came across a product called Xtreme racing engine oil additive from DSS Racing. It contains zinc, but bottle doesn't say how much. Anyone know of this/have an any experience using it?
I have a newly rebuilt Dodge flathead 6 in my '39 Plymouth (which cost me a bunch of $$$) and I'm trying to decide what direction to go in re oil for it.

Dave

Dave
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In the old days, people used to bet at fairgrounds on engines drained entirely from their oil, how long they would last....

Not sure about this product, but snake oil peddlers use this demonstration at car shows to impress people, still today...

1000 hours with no oil and no load is pretty good, regardless.

 

10 oil changes with that shtuff would pay the difference for a roller cam instead of a "tappet scuffer".

 

seems like this subject comes up every month now

 

This seems to come up alot.....and it's always the same....

I think alot of guys are paranoid, unlucky, or just doing something else wrong......

I've done a quite a few performance engine rebuilds in the past 2 years with no failures using off the shelf motor oil (not diesel oil), no additives other than initial cam break-in lube............

 

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100&#37;" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">no55mad,
Thanks for the tip. I'll check out the site.

Dave
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Here is a some info on ZDD
http://www.zddplus.com/


OPPS someone beat me to it!

 

Read www.zddplus.com and there testing on GM's EOS verses ZDDPlus, a product sold by an Alliance vendor here as well as Eastwood and Chev's of the 40's. Also advertised in popular car rags.

 

I'd look for independent varification from a reputable source before I put anything in my motor. Check the oil guy's sight to see what some of the Lucas stuff does. Pretty darn scary. I don't know if ZDDPlus is good or bad, but I wouldn't take their word for it.

 

when I bought my Isky cam they recommended Brad Penn oil

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From what i hear all the diesel oils had a reduction in zinc content, problem is they left the same amount of detergents in it. If the detergent out numbers the zinc you just get really clean metal on metal.

 

I still have a case of the old EOS from when they discontinued it. I'll have to get some of the new **** & see if it's the same.

 

From what I hear they took the Zinc out of the desil oil starting 1st of this year

 

Wish I was computer savvy enough to go find that little logo that shows a guy beating the Hell outta a dead horse! Bet this topic has occupied more bandwidth the last few years than any other single subject on a narrowly focused basis!
It's so damn simple, just use ZDDP Plus additive or use one of the oils specifically marketed for older, non catalytic converter equipped engines that state high zinc content intended for high performance flat tappet engines. There are several on the market, both petroleum based and synthetic.
Back in the good old days I mixed blue can STP and the old GM EOS and used it on everything when ***embling an engine. Now I get one of the specially prepared ***embly lubes From ARP, etc. for the bearings, etc. And I use the cam grinder's product to lube the lobes and lifter bottoms on flat tappet cams. And then I use one of the break in type oils such as Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs for a few hundred miles, and then go to Amsoil's Premium Protection Synthetic, available in 10W-40 and 20W-50 with a very high zddp content. As a disclosure, I sell Amsoil, have used it since '74. and I'm gonna try to set up as an Alliance Vendor on it. I used Amsoil 25 years before I started selling it.And to be sure, there are sveral other marketers selling quality oils with high zinc, just read the labels closely!
Dave

 

This is $4.50 a quart at O'reillys. It's what I run. But 20w50.

• Download Product Info PDF
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VR1 Racing Oil (VR1)

The #1 selling racing motor oil. High zinc provides race-level protection for any vehicle.

• High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications
• Additional friction modfiers to help deliver maximum horsepower
• Enhanced anti-foam system protects engine during extreme stress
• Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels
• Available through leading auto parts retailers

 

Yep !