So my castiron powerglide in my 53 belair just went south and I found out itll be pretty damn expensive to have it rebuilt, since I know nothing about rebuilding trannys. Im now trying to decide whether to go with a stick or a later AT. I understand that with either option Ill be needing to get an open driveline and an open rearend. Option 1: TH350, 200R4 or 700R4. All will require an adapter plate, different linkage, different tailshaft support and maybe some fitting, etc. Option 2: T5 manual bolts on to original bellhousing (i think). Itll require installing a clutch pedal assembly, possibly a different tailshaft support and maybe some linkage, etc. Question: What rearend works best for these cars? Gear ratio, width and easy mounting to leaf springs? I can see pro's and con's in each option. Im unsure of the benifits or headaches of one versus the other. What are your opinions or thoughts? Thanks!
Option 3: Go find a 3 speed '53-'54 parts car ... bolt everything together with the Powerglide axle intact. Should take a weekend if you clean everything real good.
I SECOND THAT, there are plenty of guys swapping their engines out to 350/350 combos , i would think you could find a pretty good one at a decent price, then get your self a repair manual and rebuild your old tranny on your own time and budget .
if you drive it alot, I would take this opportunity to step up to a modern trans. A 5spd make s a WORLD of difference in enjoying a 235 powered car, compared to your iron PG, you will think you have doubled your power. The 200-4r is a good choice as well due to its compactness if you don't want to shift and just cruise. yeah, you have to get a open rear axle but it's worth it in my opinion.
If you run the 235, it will not like fourth gear, especially if you use a lock up converter. If you run in third gear all the time it will be a happy engine, now I ran a 3:25 rear which was a little high but I didn't want to buy another rear end. I ran the 250 for two years, finally changed out the six for a V8 and the V8 loves the 700R4 with the 3:25 gears and gets better mileage. But if you want the six, its o.k. but you must keep it in the 2100 to 2500 rpm range running down the road and it will sound good and be a happy motor. Remember, you always want your motor happy so you can get to where you are going. Good luck
I'd go with "Option 3" as well. You're stock PG rear is a 3.55:1 which is ideal for a stick tranny. The biggest bugaboo will be figuring out a shift linkage. I'd try to find a floor shifter, I'm not sure if anyone still produces them new but you should be able to find a used one on E-pay or Craig's. You'll need a 235 flywheel and you'll probably also need to install a pilot bearing in your crank but this would be a pretty simple swap with good results over the old PG tranny IMHO. Edit: When you find your donor car get all the clutch linkeage as well.
question about the 4th gear....why do you think it is a bad idea for the 235? im curious because mine has the stock 235 3 speed but driving on the highway seems to make the motor scream for another gear.
Mainly because it's a 30 percent overdrive, so even with 4.11:1 rear gears, the final drive ratio in o/d will be 2.87:1---a bit light for a 235 when pulling a grade. Honestly, a TH350 and a rear gear in the 3.08-3.23 range would be a good compromise. I like driving standard shift cars, so if I were to do a driveline swap on a '49-'54, I'd go with a Saginaw four speed and 3.08 rear. You can find Saginaws with 3.11:1 first gear ratios, which would still give it plenty of gear out of the hole; the overall ratio in first would be about the same as a wide ratio Muncie with 3.73:1 gears in the back.
Only one good adapter out there to change over to auto and i dont know there name. Its expensive. The one the asshat in mich sells is no good. 5speed works well. I have one behind a 235 with a 2:73 rear and i pull it out of 5th only on steep grades.
Ok, I guess Option 3 would also be a choice to consider. I was thinking about that option all night after I posted this thread and it looks like you guys read my mind! I could get all of the original clutch pedals and such here at a local used chevy parts house. They deal in just 40-50 chevys and have TONS of used original parts for these. Cool thing is, like you guys mentioned, the driveline and rearend could still be used. Im glad to know that the PG rearend gears will work with a 3 speed. From what I understand, it wont work the other way around though. So I guess Im lucky going from a PG to a 3spd in this case. Questions: Does anyone know if the tranny support is the same for both the PG and 3spd?? Do these old 3spds have syncros inbetween all gears? My brothers 62 ranchero doesnt seem to have a syncro downshifting from 2nd to 1st, so he double clutches it. Madspazz: Ive heard of both PG and 3spd 235 cars screamin at highway speeds as well, making you wish for another gear. At what speed do you wish for 4th gear? 55? 65? 75? Chevyfordman: If you feel the 235 wont like a 4th gear in a 4spd, what about running it in 4th gear with a 5spd? May be a dumb question, but Im not educated on trannys or gear ratios at all! Wouldnt it also depend on the rearend gear ratio? After all, if I stepped up to a modern 4 or 5 speed, Id need to do the whole driveline/rearend swap anyways. Thanks!
I can tell you about my experience with a 235 in a 53 Chevy PU. put in a 3.53 (I think) ratio GM 12 bolt a saginaw 4 speed, with the 4 rings on the input. the final ratio on all these saginaw is 1 to 1 so no overdrive like with a T% Anyway I cruise at 55, but not much more. I have 15" wheels and kind of low profile tires so I lose some high end there. The T5 is probably a beter option but the saginaw is a simple bolt in. Just have to have a driveline made and you're on the road.
Don't look past the 2004r. While you do have to get the tv cable stuff right for the pressures in the tranny, that stuff is readily available. With 3.55's it won't be lugging on the highway. You are supposed to downshift or unlock the converter on a grade, so the engine won't labor. I think it will be less work and about the same cost as the t5.
There are about 100 posts on here detailing what rearends fit, so I won't go into that. I think your cheapest option is a stock three-speed, you can hardly give the things away and it shouldn't be hard to come up with all the parts - but you will need to swap out the master to get the clutch pedal, the pivot is part of the M/C. I suspect the crossmember is the same because the master bolts on in the same place on said crossmember, but I could be wrong. I do know the torque tube is the same length, so no other interchange is needed. As for gears, it all depends what trans you use and what sort of cruising speeds you want to run. Use an RPM calculator to determine what works best - try to make the cruising speed around the RPM where the motor's putting out the most torque. Randy's Ring & Pinion website is the one I usually use. And be aware there was a T4 trans out there too - they are not supposed to have a bulge on the tail housing for the OD gear, but I have one which does have it; they may be a cheaper alternative to a T5 since as close as I can tell they have no real value either. 1986-1989 S10s could come with them; that may be the only 2WD application (I know Jeeps also could have them for a few years) unless 2.8 Camaro/Firebird got them. Not a lot of data out there. The T4/T5 will not bolt to the stock bell, you'll need an adapter plate such as made by Buffalo Enterprises - which also resolves about an inch of length in the T5 input shaft you'd otherwise have to trim down. The other choice would be to change the bellhousing to a 55-59 car or 48-59 truck - I'm guessing unless you can go to a junkyard and trip over one, the cost is going to be a toss-up after the labor to pull one out of another car, and machine the input shaft.
I ran a 250 which is 150 HP, the 700R4 takes HP to operate it and it does good with a 3:25 rear but on hills or on the interstate highways, its pretty dead though it does move you down the road but it is working hard and you can see it in the gas mileage. So a 3:73 rear would be a lot better. I drove my old chevy home with the 216 and it was screaming at 55 miles an hour so it had to go. Also the carbs on the six's sit side ways so hooking up the linkage is not easy and takes a lot of monkey motion. The TV cable has to have a bracket to mount the cable housing to so you have to be inventive there also. I have tall tires on my car so maybe all I needed was to get the rear end ratio lower to get the engine in the 2100 to 2500 rpm range. I like the autos best as I'm old now and tired of shifting gears all my life. If you want to drive the car all the time as I do then a V8 is great and easier to put in. I even used the original trans crossmember for the 700R4 and power brakes. A five speed fourth gear is 1 to 1 but the 700R4 is less than 1 to 1 so the 5 speed would work better. You can always run the 700R4 in third and have the same effect to. Have I helped any?
I vote option 3.... Easy bolt in, 3 on the tree fun, and the geeering will be just fine. You dont wanna wind out tooo slow, it takes the fun outta the straight pipes. The fiddy got a 53 rearend behind a carbed up 261, and 235 before that.... 65-70 all day. But ill admit, its happy time is around 58. Swapping out to a open drive line might get you 10 more mph top end, do you really neeed it?
too bad you are not closer to Chicagoland, I have a 53 PG sitting-if you need it let me know,, but getting it to your house is in your hands!!
T-5 out of an S-10 is the way to go. Contact Tom Langdon from Stoveboltengineco.com That's what I'm run'n and having the 4th and 5th gear is amazing. I ran 3 speeds forever and now I would never go back.
I hear all of you. Im going with a 3 speed for now. Found a guy thatll give me everything I need including the master cylinder and all linkage for $250. I like this option cause of the 3.55's and keeping the rearend and driveline for now is the easiest thing to do to get me on the road. Two different well respected tranny shops Ive used before quoted me $1800 to rebuild the PG cause the parts are from the east coast and pretty expensive. I like the idea of a dry clutch and gears in oil. I can wrap my head around the mechanical end of it. AT always have baffled me with all the ports and lines and passage ways. And, in my case, they can just let go with no warning. At least with a manual, youll most likely get some feedback that its gonna go out soon and it needs some attention. Im in the process of pulling my old PG out right now. Never done it before, but I have the manual. And thanks to everyone for the fair warning that this one will be a heavy one! Got the jack in place already! More later
Stay as far away from that jack ass as you can.(Langdog) He is a ripe off artist and the one that sells that adapter for the 235 to auto that does not work.I personal know of 3 people in my area that have been screwed by this jack ass.(i am the 4th jerk) I agree with the T-5 out of a S-10 but you sure ass hell dont need him.We were doing those swaps when he told us they would not work..
Check out this adapter from the Hot Rod Works: http://hotrodworks.com/catalog/index.php?route=product/product&path=44&product_id=110
Total waste of cash and not needed. Only thing you have to do is cut the input shaft to match a stock one(about 3/16 if i remember and just the pilot part) And cut the bearing retainer to the same length as a stock one.It takes about 15 min. i did this swap back in 1989 in my drive way in 4 hours with hand tools.after 400,000 miles its still in there. The clutch is a bit harder to find . I use a clutch disc from a jeep with 9 and 15/16th size(80s maybe with a 4cyl?) and a stock pressure plate 10 inch stock linkage... stock fork... stock throw out bearing.... Get this i found a drive shaft from a what i think was a 80SS monte that bolted in.. But not sure on that it could have been from one of the race cars. Simple swap with NO store bought adapter....its really only a spacer that you dont need. Oh you do have to run a drill bit through the trans mounting holes as they are metric. That takes about 1 min.
I've got a T-5 hooked up to my 235 with a 10 bolt rearend. Perfect setup. Hit me up if I can help with anything, I have everything you need. Good Luck!
Who knows, you may get used to it. Got the original 3-on-the-tree stick-shifting double-clutching 3 speed with torque-tube and 3.55 gears on both my daily rides. I kept the fancy smooth vacuum shift in my coupe, but my truck shifts a llittle faster....haha 15 years later and I never needed more than 3500 rpm, 85 mph and 18-20 mpg for the streets, freeways or hauling. Btw: If you still have the stock manifolds and with the cash you saved, get headers and a better breathing intake and add some power and mileage, especially with later 235s.
Every time I've ever dealt with that dude he's been nothing but cool. Total book of knowledge on Chevy Straight Six's and always forthcoming with info. Call the dude and form your own opinion.
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