Volare Airbag Help

I'm building a 48 Dodge Panel truck with a Volare front clip. I used the Volare clip because it was free, then decided to airbag it because everybody said it can't be done or it's too much work. Well it's kind of done and now I need some help. Originally the torsion bars kept the lower control arm in place, but now they are gone. So basically I need a strut bar like a mustang 2 front end. I just need some help and input from some chassis guys that are much smarter than I am. I'm thinking some tubing with a heim joint at each end. One at the frame and one on the control arm should do it. Any input or suggestions for doing so would be greatly appreciated. thanks, andrew

 

The ones that were smarter then you told you it would be more work then it was worth and shouldn't be done with knowing what you were doing. Guess they were right?

Suppose some sort of strut rod might work, would need to be pretty stout. You will need to weld a hefty bracket to the frame ahead of and towards the center of the pannel from the lower control arm to the frame. Then you need a heavy duty rod attaching the two together, something like the original mustang II suspensions had. Its got to be tough, all your braking force will be on that strut. Good luck. Next time listen to people that tell you not to do something, many have already tried and already failed or have the knowlege to know it will not work. Gene

 

Panel looks great layed out!! Why not hit the junkyard and get a pair of strut rods off of a mustang and make them work on the Volare?

 

why not put the torsion bars back in.. and use electric linear actuators on the ends of the torsion bars.. you could have something better than air ride..

 

Volare torsion bars run across the car, not front to back like the older Mopars did. Would the electric linear actuators still work? Gene

 

I don't think I'm way off by thinking the strut bar will work. My 78 Dodge has a strut bar setup and it's the only thing stabilizing the lower control arm?

 

So can you copy that design?

 

I'm thinking about it, but I don't think I have the room on the lower control arm to bolt the arm to it like the original. That's why I was thinking a heim joint or bushing of some sort. Also some sort of heim or bushing on the frame because with the airbag it has about 8-10"'s of lift and the original solid mount bushing probably wouldn't tolerate that much movement?

 

I had to modify a lower A arm for a customer ( he would not tell what it was for), but looking at what you are doing this might work for you.

 

yeah thats all you need to do is triangulate the lower a-arm. its pretty common with toyota and mazda airride guys. if you cant figure it out i can prolly find some pics. just make sure both of your lca mounts are on the same plane

 

So just build another lower control arm mount off the frame then just triangulate it to the control arm?

 

I like to use bushings from 4 wheel parts places, delrin stuff, when you are triangulating the arm, keeps things from flexing much at all. Get two bushing sets for both sides, and run them a fair distance apart on each arm, Just be sure to use a long rod or bolt to run through both bushings when you tack the mounts to the frame to ensure they wont bind through the travel.

 

These pics are of such a setup done to a Volare front suspension. I don't remember whose truck it was, and the work is a little rough, but you can see how the strut was installed. Joe
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I'll admit to not knowing a damn thing about the subject, but the strut shown above by okiedokie looks similar to your standard ol' tractor 3-point hitch stuff, available in three sizes at any feed store / tractor supply. Should be plenty stout, too ... considering the job they perform.

 

Thanks for the pics! That's exactly what I had in mind. I wish we knew who owned the truck so we could make sure it's still functioning properly...thanks again

 

Gene, if we all listened to the ones who told us it would not work, most of the custom stuff that are now common would not have been done at all. The problem that slicknapier is facing is not insurmountable, it will just take some out of the box thinking. All the ideas I had have already been posted, I am sure something will come from them. Good luck, slick. I am keeping an eye on the panel progress on the pilothouse forum too. Bud

 

i know people hate the mini truck community on here, and im ok with that, mini trucks are lame. But Sometimes some builders, do things that work quite well. and a lot of people do it on the 90s nissan hardbodies, because they are set up the same way. with the strut bar. they take a peice of 90 degree bent tubing and weld it on to the current a arm, and a busing on the other end. fallowed by tabs to the frame. just triangulating the control arm.

if you want, we can do that at my place anytime. ive got a bender, tig/mig notcher, everythings here. just buy some bushings for 1.5inch tube.

 

I believe the statement was that it would take more time to use the Volare crossmember for air bags then it was worth. If you want to go through all the work to mount the Volare, then modify it to use bags, more power to you. Would have been much simpler to use a lower "a" frame suspension, if you want to bag it. The second part was that you (he?) needed some experence to pull off the Volare air bag suspension. Both statements are correct. I also suspect that once its all done and over, he also will admit there are much better suspension systems with which to use with air bags, and will probably recomend that to the next guy.

I'm all for forward thinking, and see nothing wrong with learning by experence, but at the same time, we need to know the limitations of our abilities, and at least take into account those that have been there before. Repeating the same mistakes as the guy before does not move the hobby forward, but it seems to be the normal. When confronted with a guy telling you you shouldn't or can't do something, the question should be WHY? Then seek an explanation. When 20 guys tell you "no" at least a few can tell you why not. Gene

 

Volare suspension geometry is derived from and similar to the earlier Mopar torsion bar suspensions used through the 60s and 70s. The geometry is very much like and just as good as the geometry of the often used Mustang II. The Volare falls down by making the torsion bar do double duty as a strut rod. Eliminating the the T bar and adding in a proper triangulated strut rod can only improve it.

 

The bag angle at full lift in your 3rd pic looks a little steep. You might want to relieve that a bit if it as severe an angle as it looks in the pic. Should be most even at ride height in my experience. Truck looks amazing laid out though!!

 

The bag angle is a little off. I don't plan on airing that up much very often. It's not to bad at ride height..

 

Way To Go Slick, Nice Job, Setup and Effort.

A year late and a dollar short, However, with this said, [FONT=Calibri,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]"Those that say it cant be done should say so quietly, so as not to disturb those who are doing it."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]

 

Yep a year late, but still looks bitchen laid out!
Whats the progress Slick?

 

i'm all for making things work and trying something different; but when it comes to suspension/brakes/steering i tend to be a little conservative and trust more in what the factory engineers used.
as far as the minitruck guys go; just like rodders, some have good sound ideas and some are accident waiting to happen.
as far as Aspen/Volare setups; just like AMC Pacer rigs, the supply of replacement parts isn't infinite and i'd rather have something i could get parts for from NAPA if i was down a couple hundred miles from home.
my LAST nitpick on home-engineered suspension is state inspection laws; i'd hate to take a car in and have a real by-the-book inspector who actually knows what he's looking at start checking off violations. been there, done that, with a Falcon in Virginia.

 

Haven't touched it. I've been working on the car instead. I think I'm going to ditch the Volare airbags and just do the torsion bars. Also bought a Dakota frame so if I get a little more ambitious the panel will go on the Dakota frame.

 

So, after a year, he comes to the conclusion a different suspension system would be better to use with air bags then a Volare. Then, he says he just going to put the torsion bars back on the Volare and use a Dakota frame/suspension with his air bags? I believe that was what several people tried to tell him before he even began.

I am old, gray, and many think I am stupid as well, which, I suppose, may be true. Through the decades I have managed to collect a few years of experience, which I'm happy to share with others. I am not afraid to tell you why I make statements on if things will work or not. I take the time to type answers to questions posted so maybe I can save someone from going through some of the experiences I've had to learn the hard way. Time has a way of repeating itself. At some point, someone will ask the question "can I use a Volare front suspension with air bags?" and slicknapler will respond with an answer very much like I gave him, and it will probably be ignored as well. That will probably make my day, much like his last post did today. Thanks. Gene

 

a simple way I would think about would be to keep the torsion bar but instead of a key holding it to the frame, put a bearing in.. then it doesn't have any spring force.. would that work?

 

that Dakota frame should work out pretty slick for you. i put one under my 48 Chevy truck after first having it 90 percent done on an S-10 frame. Dakota is a far better fit. shouldn't be too tough to bag, once i get to that point, either.

i'm sure it's a moot point at this juncture, but if you keep the Valare setup as you were doing it and add a strut bar, i'd suggest using rubber bushing at either end. heims joints are rough and noisy, Polly bushings should never be used on street cars. they don't last and they are typically more expensive than rubber. Polly are harder to stretch, but when they do stretch they stay that way. rubber always goes back to it's original shape. Delrin will wear out quicker than rubber... but it is often used in trailer suspensions. same story with nylon bushings.

good luck what ever road you choose.

 

Just for that keep the air bags and make them work