Heavy body repair- how would YOU approach this problem?

Planning ahead a bit- the Chevy is going to need some floorboard work, some body mounts repaired, and inner and outer rockers.

Curious to opinions on two approaches- leaving the body on the frame or taking it off.

Of course, it's easier if it's off the frame. My concern is keeping the body square. Brace the door openings?

On the frame, the body mounts are a bit tricky, but everything should stay good and square down there.

 

On the frame for sure. You can finish weld and grind after you pull the body.

When doing inner outer rockers, try to leave the doors and nose on if possible...if not, keep constantly checking the fit of them...it will pay off even though it takes time.

If something starts to not line up as good, stop and recut the tacks. It is never easy or pretty to work around a mistake later.

 

I don't have enough information to make a recommendation but I would suggest you consider finding another car that didn't spend its life in a part of the country where they used salt on the roads.

Charlie Stephens

 

I would brace the body really good and pull it off the frame, don't be suprised if you find that the frame needs some repairs as well.

Once the body is off I would make any needed repairs to the ch***is, and make sure that it is sqaure.

Next make a subframe to fit the contours of the cars frame/ch***is. Cut whatever junk is left of a floor in the body, put it back on and attach it to your new sub frame. Make some floor pans and you're good to go.

Might as well do it right the first time around and save yourself a headache later on.

 

You could try my approach, but it was costly. I moved from New England to Northern California.

That aside, I would leave it on the frame. Depending on how much is gone, you might not be able to brace it enough to keep it stable. One "surprise" right after you lift the body of the frame could end the whole project.

 

Check out 57rustbucket.com. He deals with a '57 chevy with no rockers, body mounts or floors, and the bonus of a tweaked frame, all in an average garage, with no specality tools.

 

Yes, because those are cheap to buy and grow on trees everywhere in the country so it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get it shipped to you.


I agree with doing it on the frame because then the frame helps keep the body square. I'd do like one side at a time, and maybe tack in a few bars to help keep anything from sagging - in fact that might be preferrable to leaving doors on, you get more room to work to get floors and rockers done - just measure your opening before you start and check it once in a while. Put the car on jackstands, level on a flat floor, and you can use measurements to the floor as reference too.

And it really depends on just how bad it is, if you're replacing a floor or a rocker that has a batch of small holes but is largely structurally sound, then you can probably pull the body okay, if the whole thing is just gone, I'd get some bracing in there before I did anything else.

Really, welds on the floors and stuff don't need to be finished off super nice unless you're doing a high cl*** show car - the top will be hidden with a carpet and the bottom with undercoat - so I'd just worry about getting any slag off (if you use a flux core wire). Grinding them down you have to be careful the same as when welding, not to put too much heat in any one spot.

 

Oh, there's nothing wrong with Charlie's logic.

But, this car spoke to me, even before I owned. She told me she needed me.

Besides, it's a lot more satisfying (to me) to take a car at the brink and bring it back than to start halfway there.

Also, I wanted a project to stretch me and make me grow.

To each their own. I like my way, but I don't fault someone who travels a different road

 

I am a cheapskate. Most of the time all I can afford are rusty cars. If you have to pay someone else to fix the rust then buying a solid car would be a better way to go. But if you have the ability to fix it yourself one can repair a rusted car real cheap. It depends on how picky you are on the finished product. I can get all the sheetmetal I want for free. It might not look like the original but it is just as strong. Repairing rust can be very time consuming but I disagree that it is costly. Out of everything I've done to various cars repairing rotted floor boards and rockers was the cheapest part of the build. I've come to the conclusion that there are a lot of very well off folks here on the HAMB. Some of their budget builds are more than I bought for my first place for (2006). For some it may be a viable option to buy something from the southwest and pay thousands of dollars to have it shipped to their door but for people like myself who have a car budget of less than a grand a rust free car in somewhere like Arizona would be unaffordable even if it was free.

 

Got to love these guys from rust free states. Thier so babied. $65 to restore a T-bird? Was it chip foose? If you do 80 percent of the work yourself it shouldnt cost half that. I can see if you had a very rare hard to find car. Rust is a pain but its all fixable.

 

I agree 100%/ It should probably cost less than half that especially since it was a '65 and not a small bird. I was using it as an example of someone getting buried in a car they shouldn't have started with in the first place (high cost and not much resale value at the end). At that price it was probably rusty in addition to everything else. Sort of like getting upside down in a house.

Charlie Stephens

 

Charlie, if someone is paying someone else to do the work, you've just given about ten dollars worth of free advice. For me- I must disagree with you, and please know that I disagree repsectfully. I've got a build thread going on the car. I hope you follow along when I get to the point of rebuilding the floors/rockers/body mounts. You'll probably shake your head at me a lot.

I can't imagine how someone could put that kind of coin into something unless it was super rare. Though, with these old cars, unless you either steal the car to start with, or do most of the work yourself, it's hard to imagine hoping for anything better than break even if you sell.

That said- with my car, I'll be doing everything except upholstery, gl*** cutting, and most machining on the engine. And I have the skills and tools to almost completely avoid buying premade panels. One thing that works in my favor is that I am not restoring this car, I'm customizing it. If I make my own body mounts that are strong, durable, cleanly installed, and look good, it matters not one bit if they look exactly like the ones that the factory put on or not.

Rockers? Heck, I'm glad my rockers are rusty. Because they are entirely the wrong shape! I'd hate to have to cut rust free rockers off a car just because I want them to look differently.

That rust-free car? Glad it's out there. But I'm gonna p*** on it just the same, because it should go to a restorer or someone less adventurous (insane?) than I am. Good ol' Stellaluna will suit me just fine. She's got tons of potential, and she's all set to tax the skills I have, and force me to develop some new ones. She won't happen overnight, to be damned sure. But she's not going to break the bank, either.

Back to my original question. I wondered if my idea of rebuilding the guts of the body while on the frame was a bit crazy. It's nice to see that if I'm crazy, at least I have company.

And I'd still like more input from anyone who has thoughts.

 

If the rockers are gone and the floor is shot down the the body mounts, I'd think that there's a good chance of there being some damage to the frame that you can't see with the body on.

If it were my car, I'd pull the body off and do it right.

 

I'd also go with the body-off option for exactly the same reasons Zombie Hot Rod's suggested. There's more than likely going to be rust in the frame and as it sounds like the rockers have been replaced at some stage, I'd be surprised if the inner panels were not rusted out.

If you have to do the repairs, on-frame, then make sure that the frame is at least straight before starting. In any case make sure you have a close look at the ch***is during your build. Look forward to hearing how you get on with your project.

 

I've never done body off FWIW

I've had buddies that have done them though. E Z to access suspension and drivetrain and everything, get the frame clean, all that stuff.

The problems are many, including re-attaching the body, tweaking that damn thing accidentally, and aligning fenders, hood doors trunk to get the gaps half decent. Frame off usually adds months if not years to a build, and I read somewhere that most people that separate the body from the frame never put them back together again.

I've replaced 100% of the mechanicals on my car - drivetrain, cooling, electrical, suspension, exhaust, brake system, fuel system, steering, and anything else i forgot, with the body on the frame. I also did the floor boards, rockers, and trans tunnel.

I don't think the body off the frame would have made any of that significantly easier, but maybe I'm missing out.

Also FWIW I'm doing the gl*** and upholstery myself on my car too. A gl*** cutter is $5 at home depot, it's not hard, and if you buy a good walking foot sewing machine you can get one for 400 or less. For all upholstery, panels, carpet, glue, sewfoam, seat foam, I'll have $350 or less spent on it, and it's great material. You can re-sell your machine when you're done for what you paid for it, give or take a couple bucks.

I can't do machine work at home or make my own tires, but I try to be a 100%er as much as I can. All that stuff like wiring, A/C install+service, front end alignment, upholestery and gl*** cutting, it sounded a lot harder than it actually was.

Then again, I'm slow as **** at all those things and I'm hardly expert, but after I do them a time or 12 I get faster

good luck whatever you decide, please keep us posted!

 

I'm with F&J....do the replacement panels one at a time, ON the frame. That way there's no twisting, misalignment, suprises when you go to put the body back on the frame. If you replace body mounts, one at a time and then put in the insulators and snug them down. Once all the bracing, mounts and floors are solid (even if not welded continuously) then you can pull the body and finish welding, and grinding the welds.
I've done a bunch of frame off's and this is the way I handle them....not all of us are so luck to have rust free cars just dropping in our laps!

 

I did a 50 Chevy pu a few years ago.The cab was very rusty but straight,the doors fit well.Now a truck is easier because you only have to mess with a 400 pound cab rather than a long heavier car body.I left the cab on ,the frame level on jack stands.I replaced much of the floor ,toe board,inner and outer lower cowl panels etc.I don't have sheet metal forming tools so complex pieces shapes were made by welding up pieces and duplicating as best I could.Some lower forms were completely rotted away but a friend sent me a few patch panel so I could duplicate them ,piece by piece. I didn't brace the door openings,but constantly checked the measurements as I went.I used 16 gauge on the floor to make up for the lack of pressed in lines to stiffen the metal.
End result is a solid cab and more than good enough for this daily driver..After installing the doors ,one door opening was slightly tweaked,a little work with the Porta-Power fixed it nicely.
A rust free vehicle is real nice to start with.A rust free vehicle with no dents is even nicer.But a rusty vehicle that's straight can be made into something decent for a lot of labor and not a lot of money.

 

The rockers on my 41 were not so far gone that I couldn't take the body off the frame. I had to do this in order to put a new frame under it. It had a late Camaro subframe under it when I got it. It now has a replacement 41 frame with a MII. I did the floor pan and rocker replacement with the body on the frame to make sure it wasn't tweaked. And lower quarters. And sections of the wheel tubs. And sections of the trunk floor. Fortunately, all my body braces were solid. The K member is shot on the frame, so I will be building a new one. The body will be off probably two more times. I do it alone without any help using an engine hoist, jackstands, 2 x 3 rectangular tubing, a floor jack, and an ***ortment of 2 x 4's and 2 x 6's. Get to work!

 

When we pulled the 40 body off the frame we found rust pits on top of the frame we couldn't see with the body on---just my two cents.

 

I would suggest leaving the body on the frame to make the repairs,,keeping everything lined up is crucial.

All the repairs were completed on the wagon before the body was removed and when the frame was finished and the body reunited with the frame there were no surprises.HRP

 

Well- granted that I can not see the top of the frame with the body on, I've been under the car a good bit already replacing hard lines. I don't see anything that would indicate the likelihood of frame damage.

Also, the body mounts aren't completely gone. Most have some damage out at the ends where they attach to the inner rockers, but only one is actually no longer holding the body to the frame. My outer rockers are made of bondo, and the inners are definitely weak. The floorboards are bad out near the sides. Maybe that's a better way of describing the damage.

The advice to do one piece at a time is certainly good, and the comments here seem to really reinforce my idea of doing it on the frame.

And it's also worth noting that this isn't new territory for me. My buddy's '59 Bel Air was in nearly as bad of shape when he got it. When we started on it, we both had zero experience with proper bodywork. We knew what we had to do, but it was out first time actually doing it. This is what the car looks like 15 years after the bodywork was completed and the car was painted.

 

Hey, I found something else fun! Charlie- you want to navigate away now

When the wheel came off and did this



It bent the cowl slightly, too. I didn't notice it until I was swapping out the door. So, looks like I'll be doing a lot of measuring and tweaking as I'm redoing the rockers and floors.

And I STILL ain't giving up on it!

 

Heres my 2 cents!...We all have to decide which Mountain were willing to die on!

 

Oddly enough, mountain hiking is another serious love of mine. Ain't afraid of those, either!

 

There. The new avatar should be a bit more suitable. And the gun is even HAMB-worthy- it's a WWII issue .45!

I needed a new avatar without the stick-on flames, anyway.

 

Seems strange to me that fbama is asking how to do the repair......then acts like he has repaired all kinds of rust and rusted cars before!! Just an observation reading all of his posts.

Which is it fbama....you an expert body man...or beginner asking for advice.

Most certainly not very clear. Also, if you did not notice the front fender/cowl etc. damage before!! You need to go see a good eye doctor...very quickly.

Good luck with the rust bucket...wreck!

 

In between, but good enough for THIS car. Thanks for asking.

And thanks to those who weighed in with opinions on the actual question. The overwhelming consensus is the direction I was leaning anyway.

 

you are in my prayers sir.

 

nothing wrong with starting a project that has rust or damage. i think its great that ppl will put the time and money to save a car than just saying its "to bad to fix" and stripping it and leaving it to the junk yard i repair rusty cars all the time i live in michigan i dont really have a choice and i cant afford a rust free car any way. it gives a man a sense of pride taking a lost cause and rebuilding it and putting back on the road again to drive and have fun with. my cars are not done to be orignal show cars they are just hot rods ment to be every day drivers. have fun and good luck hope to see your project on the road some day