Hopefully I can explain this so it can be understood. The car is a '41 Ford Woodie 350/350 same old stuff. I've finally got everything wired and began powering up the various circuits to make sure there are no problems. I'm using a Ron Francis wiring kit and everything has been fine BUT here's the rub. I'm not ready to start the engine yet so in order to be able to turn the ignition switch to the start position without starting the engine I disconnected the lead that runs from the "I" post on the ignition switch to the small inner post on the solenoid. (disconnected it from the solenoid end). When testing for power on circuits that have a direct connection to the battery the circuit goes dead when the key is in the ignition position. This includes the wire that feeds 12v to the HEI distributor. I don't believe this will work but I think that the cause is my having disconnected the wire mentioned above. In particular I need a circuit that will be dead when the key is off and hot when the key is in run or start. This circuit will operate the solenoid in the neutral safety switch circuit and if it goes dead when in the start position the solenoid will not allow the circuit to be completed. No fire, no start. Is my guess concerning disconnecting the ignition wire what is causing this to happen? Hopefully my explaination makes sense to someone. Thanks
Ok. If I am understanding what you are getting at. You do not have juice to the coil when in start. Right? So the way it should be wired is from the S terminal on the ignition switch to the S terminal on the starter. From the R terminal on the starter to the coil. What kinda ignition switch are you running ?
I don't believe that is your problem. In the run position you should have power to the coil through a 9v resistor. When in the "start" position the 9v power source goes dead and the coil gets a full 12v from the other small terminal on the starter solenoid..... at least that's how I wire them.
I didn't explain very well so maybe this will help. The engine is running an HEI so there's no ballast resistor and no external coil. The HEI is fed by a wire from the terminal block straight to the distributor. The neutral safety switch is a relay controlled circuit that is coupled with an LED gearshift indicator. The gear indicator has a hot lead that runs to the sender on the transmission, if the car is in P or N the circuit to the relay is completed, the relay closes and power is fed to the starter. My problem is that all of the circuits that are battery fed have no power to them when the key is in the start position. Since the circuit from the start (ST) terminal on the ignition switch to the S terminal on the solenoid is disconnected at the S terminal I'm wondering if this is why the circuits power down when the key is turned to start. There are four terminals on the back of the ignition switch B (battery), I (ignition), Acc (Accessory) and ST (start)
If you have disconnected the I lead from the switch then you have no ign power. If you don't want to start the engine pull the S lead off of either the switch or the starter. If you have a test light (and you should) turn the key on and test the I terminal on the switch to be sure that there is power there, then put the wire back on and run downthe line and trace where you are losing it.
Sounds like the ignition switch may be defective or wired incorrectly. When you say that everything that is directly powered off the battery goes dead, does that mean that the battery gets shorted to ground, or that they just lose power to them? Try a sanity check by disconnecting the field wire to the alternator and see if this works. Do you have an idiot light in series with the field wiring? Let us know what happens with the field wire disconnected.
I'm using my terms rather than the correct terms. I mean that I disconnected the solenoid end of the wire that runs from the ST terminal on the ignition switch to the S terminal on the solenoid. Using a test light I checked circuits that should be hot when the key is in the start position. I did this by that was hot when the key is in the run position, as I turn the key further to the start position, the circuits lose power. I'll start again tomorrow and check if I have fire at the I terminal on the ignition switch. I think that I'm correct by ***uming that the I terminal should be hot when the key is in the run position AND in the start position, correct?
Might not be! Usually the gauges and indicator lights are off when starting the engine. The ignition gets it's power from the solenoid R terminal. Then when you release the start position, the run position takes over. Check the ignition switch for this before going any further.
Sounds like you have a switch that doesnt feed the run circuit while in start position. There should be a start terminal Batt pwr terminal Acc terminal and a run terminal on your switch. The acc terminal will go dead while in start position and some parts store switches dont feed run while in start I would say that is the case here.
Ok that sounds like it might be the problem, I hope. I was grasping at straws about the wire being disconnected from the solenoid. What you are saying makes the most sense. I'll do some continuity checks tomorrow to see if I have the wrong ignition switch.
In this application the gauges etc are fed by the accessory circuit so all of the gauges function when the key is in accessory or run position, but not in start. According to the instructions with the Ron Francis kit the R terminal on the solenoid is not used at all. The distributor is powered directly from the terminal block.
Terminal block? Where does the power come from for this TERMINAL BLOCK? This is where you need to check when in start position, then at the ignition switch or wherever the terminal block gets it's power.
Ok it seems like there are a lot of troubleshooting questions asked but rarely do we find out what the problem actually was. I started back at square one looking for what might be causing my problem. First thing was the ignition switch and bingo, I had attached the battery feed to the Acc terminal and the Accessory feed to the Bat terminal. It's hard to read those little letters while hanging upside down like a bat under the dashboard. Anyway I switched them to where they belong and the heavens opened and smiled on me. Everything works like it should now. Thanks again for everyones help.
I'm not sure what model harness you have and with over 200 variations in our instructions, there might be one that doesn't tell you what to do when you want to test circutis but not start the engine. In short, disconnect the orange wire right at the HEI distributor. If you disconnect the igntion feed anywhere else, it will undoubtedly affect something else. We try to include this info in all of our instructions. Feel free to call our tech department on this or any other question regarding our proeducts. If you call about the wiring harnesees, please have your serial number from the fuse panel handy as we need that to know for sure what we sent you. This holds true if you are a second or third owner. We'll help anyone with our kit even if you are not the original purchser. Hope this helps, Ron Francis
Ron, thanks for the response, I've never had any complaint with your products and will continue to use and recommend them. In post #15 on this thread I posted the solution to the problem that I was having, my old eyes can't read the lettering on the ignition switch while looking under the dash. I corrected MY error and everything is fine now. The only question I have with your idea of disconnecting the power feed to the HEI to prevent the engine from starting is that I think the engine would still crank but not start. I didn't want the engine to crank at all because it's a brand new engine and I didn't want it to turn over or start until I was prepared properly for that. Sorry for the delayed response I just returned from vacation in the wilds of southeastern Utah and have not had internet access until I returned home. Thanks again for your response and for a great line of products. MH
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