A Rear End question being rehashed again! OK, I've made a few enquiry's here before about rear ends now is time to confess my true motive! Is it legal [ under these rules ] to swap a pumpkin from one manufacturer to another? Years ago, I swapped a pumpkin from a Nissan C20 van into the housing of my Lotus Cortina [ The driveshaft bolted up, I used cortina spiders with br*** spacers ,and redrilled the housing ] This sort of swap didn't require spe******t machining [ just a drill press ] but you needed to be good with your measurements. Now I am presently in China until October, and I see all sorts of "strange ****" on their roads! Up here there is a pickup truck called "Zhong Xing", which is a generic copy of a Toyota double-cab pickup with a 6"stretch. They are made locally in the city I am at. I went to visit the owner as I had contacts with him. Most of the driveline is a direct copy of the Toyota He re***ured me that a "G" series Toyota pumpkin will bolt straight in [the 8" crownwheel and the 31spline axles are identical on both ] When I went for a tour around their factory, I spied a "piece of ****" Chinese farm truck they make for the local market here These things are a joke, they are powered by a 18hp 2 cyl diesel [ and a 24hp 2 cyl diesel for the larger option ]and they have the same rear end. I borrowed a tape measure and measured the rear end width of both ch***is' The narrow rear end was approx 1150mm [45-1/4"] and the wider rear was 1250mm [49-1/4"] from drum to drum And the Toyota G series pumpkins can swap in [ in NZ I can get a 4.875 head with posi for about $150 NZ , a 4.625 is a little bit more ] I am thinking of buying a couple or rear ends when I return to NZ. Both parts are OEM but not as that combination together....... Now...... Would a Toyota pumpkin in a Zhong Xing housing be an acceptable modification [ or would a housing swap be interpreted as a clever way of narrowing a Toyota rear end ] I might end up with a "HF"/GR [ harbour fr**ght/GR ] with all these quality parts
I wouldn't have a problem with it ... but then again who am I ???!!!??? One thing I learned when I was in Military Training teaching a course in Soviet Threat is that most of the Communist Bloc technology where direct copies of American and British designs to begin with. Russian Military transport trucks were using a direct copy of the GMC 6 up until the 90's (and possibly still today ?!?) I say if you can score the stuff cheap use it, truth be told who would really know if you didn't tell them ??!!??
you know how the Russians are, they copied the B-29, exactly, even using american size bolts, probably so all parts were interchangable
The reason I asked is........ the first thing people will do is accuse me of cheating [ these diffs are quite narrow ] So not saying anything ,would make it look like I narrowed them [ I'll take photo's at the factory to prove my case ] And the first thing I would do is heat treat the axles when I'm back home. I am not trying to get around the rules , I am trying to design a racer that has a certain period look [ late 50's - early 60's Altered ] I'll build it with a clip on body [ as a later development ] but as a HA/GR first. Also when the driver has to sit between the two axles, is that the seat only or all body parts. Because I'm tall I'll lay the seat back a bit [ my head and shoulders could be behind the axle centerline] Trust me when I say this, the Chinese **** you buy in the states is a dream compared to the **** they have over here The place would go broke if they had any consumer laws [ dishonesty is a way of life ] I cant even buy a pencil sharpener over here without a ****en argument with them [ at least they're scared of me here ] I'm 6'3" and 100kg [220lbs]
Hell, I'll likely get singed for this, but why not, I have a thick hide. The most important question I ask myself is "Does this (piece, procedure, technique, etc) fairly represent something a '50s rodder could've had available to him?". There are some really unusual things and tricks that actually were used that folks have forgotten, and many that weren't that folks slip in for various reasons (mostly cost & availability or more modern performance). Expiremental perversions of heads for one example of the former and roller rockers for one example of the latter. In that I enjoy the total project, for my own build I go so far as to shun using computerized machinery as well. No CNCs, etc, strictly hands on operated stuff. I do make exceptions regarding requisite safety equipment so as to be able to run (a sop to the Dragsneyland mentality of today). Yes, I would prefer to run with a simple roll bar and lap belt as was practiced then but it's illegal take responsibility for oneself in today's society (another argument, for another time). So if this were applied to your question, here's how it'd look. Do the parts fairly represent '50s equivalents and do the techniques fairly reflect the way a rodder would've done it then? In other words; were there narrower rears to be had by rodders then, and was this butchery do-able in a rodder's shop then? The answers (as always) are in what you want from the experience. As to driver position ........ 7. No slingshot ch***is. Driver and engine must be positioned between the front and rear axles. That's the text. So let's pars it ....... It only says "axle". The axle proper is the turning bar(s) inside the rear drive housing or the bar-like piece & spindles across the front. It only says "driver". That excludes the helmet, it's just equipment. It specifies "between". That excludes the axles themselves from the measurement. Conclusions ....... A line drawn vertically from the front of the rear axle bar must p*** behind the driver's head, inside his helmet, and a line drawn vertically from the rear of the front axle bar must p*** in front of the driver's toes, inside his shoes. All in all, not much wiggle room in this one, but it was fun doing the exercise.
Just to throw some gasoline on the fire. Don't know about the Chinese "Quality" Parts...(or is that more likely "Chinese Quality" Parts), but if you are considering a "narrow" rear many golf carts have rear axles that look pretty stout and are quite narrow and a lot of fork lift trucks have axles that appear to be narrowed truck axles that would probably take any abuse you could throw at them. That said were those parts ever used by hotrodders "back in the day".......probably not, you make the call. Just because the parts are available now, (and even if they were available back then), do they really fit the "spirit of the bug"? I know there are many around this forum who think that "spirit" thing is overused and out of place considering all of the N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) mandated changes that have been forced upon the cl***, but it still is what brought these cars to life. In a cl*** restricted to a 6" treaded street tire on the rear wheels how much is to be gained? Just my $0.02.
Actually Kerry IMHO you are over-thinking the thing, You can buy a narrow diff housing here if you really want one, I have a couple of Dana 44 housings out of a ditch witch only 36" wide ..... it will cost too much freight to make it worthwhile....and Toyota Hilux diff heads and axles have skyrocketed in price here.all the drift guys want them. The Aussies are mostly using L300, they are fairly narrow, extremely cheap( I got one free and one for $50) , Ford stud pattern and the axles don't break. As far as I know narrow rear ends have two purposes in drag cars ....one they are more aerodynamic.......hardly a consideration at 100mph terminal speed..... Secondly they reduce the horizontal leverage....... in other words in a very high horsepower car a narrow diff reduces the tendency to rotate ..slide sideways on the track.... Once again probably not enough horsepower or tires to be really concerned, not going quick enough to get too far out of control , and if you do it's just that much more of a show. Just give up on arguing about pencil sharpeners and come home and start building a HA/GR. I think I will go dump an L300 diff and wheels and a front axle in front of your garage door tomorrow so you have something to come home to!!
I have to agree , lots of experiments were done back in the day, and lots of odd ball stuff was used . The "conventions" of today are just what the hot rodders of yesterday discovered were the most reliable for the job....by experimentation. Take rear ends for example, nearly every rodder and racer uses a 9" Ford these days or a copy, permutation etc of a 9"....however in the 50's there were many used e.g Olds, Pontiac and Buick used which did the job just as well. Personally I think a 9" Ford is overkill on 80% of the places they are fitted....... a waste of money and they eat horsepower. A diff from the most common of small pickups will do the job for HA/GR, ( lowish ratio and strong/common enough ) They are the same thing 50's racers would have used.....junk lying around....... race cars were built on s**** metal technology and parts back then and can be done the same today. A lot of "advances" in technology have come from rodders experimentation over the years, being taken up by the manufacturers.
Nice guy, this isn't the place for bigot politics, it's in the rules !!! Where did you arrive from Bryan? If you don't already know or haven't put any thought into it, American parts are not easily available on these islands 8000 miles from California , and when they are they are not cheap. When you are building something cheap you use cheap parts.
I apologise mate. I came over here and rarely go back home. Guess I got spoiled. I'll leave it all alone. cheers !!!
I think I will go dump an L300 diff and wheels and a front axle in front of your garage door tomorrow so you have something to come home to!![/QUOTE] I'm sure Steve who's looking after my place would love to wake up to this in the morning I actually never thought about an L200 or L300 Pajero diffs are a better choice for strength [9-1/4 R&P and posi ] but they are heavy as hell [ like a 9 inch.] G series toyota diffs are also in hiace vans as well [they are cheaper] the early 70's hiace is narrowest [ the drift boys don't know this yet ] They are also 5 stud Ford pattern [ 5 x 4-1/2 PCD ] I'm bringing back a container of bits and pieces anyway so I might chuck 2 diffs inside [ only $50 ea ] These might not be used at all [then I've only wasted $100] the shipping is already paid for I am chasing after a certain look ,Nothing Else!!!!. Not an unfair performance advantage We all carefully select bits from other manufacturers "parts bins" to build a combination we think will work best. If I really wanted to run a narrowed rear and slicks, a diff swap would be real easy [ its only nuts and bolts, I could build it interchangable ]
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