No, actually that wasnt well said or written. I asked a question with total respect and was told: 1) Traditional Kustoms take little skill to build. 2) Other builders are going to clone this car and then it will be traditional. wow on both accounts.
I think the ego was first shown by glassguyoc. Asking how this build would be traditional is argumentative and shows a lack of knowledge of whats being built lately on th HAMB.. Here is the defintion of "Tradition" and the definition of "Traditonal is "of, relating to, or being a tradition" "tra·di·tion <SUP></SUP> <SCRIPT language=javascript>AC_FL_RunContent = 0;</SCRIPT><SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "15", "<img src=\"http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tradition pronunciation\" />", "6");interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high");interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t");interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fsp.dictionary.com%2Fdictstatic%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FT04%2FT0422500.mp3&clkLogProxyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fwhatzup.html&t=a&d=d&s=di&c=a&ti=1&ai=51359&l=dir&o=0&sv=00000000&ip=51826e40&u=audio"); interfaceflash.addParam('wmode','transparent');interfaceflash.write();</SCRIPT><OBJECT id=speaker class=inlineimg title="Big Grin" border=0 codeBase="codebase=" alt="" classid="clsid</OBJECT><NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> /trəˈdɪʃən/ Show Spelled[truh-dish-uhn] Show IPA noun 1. the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, esp. by word of mouth or by practice: a story that has come down to us by popular tradition. 2. something that is handed down: the traditions of the Eskimos. 3. a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting: The rebellious students wanted to break with tradition. 4. a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices. 5. a customary or characteristic method or manner: The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition." HAMB rules: "The HAMB is dedicated to spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and kustoms to hoodlums world wide. Thats right TRADITIONAL. And we arent talking Beach Boys and poodle skirts here fellas. If you are into a-side 50s pop, lawn chairs, ruler contests, and all things that make hot rodding warm and cozy then you might want to find another message board" So Glassguyoc and Aussie Steve, whats wrong with this post? Because if you have a problem with this post, then you should also have a problem with thousands of other posts. I've looked in both your threads, and postings and I dont see you guys giving crap to all the other guys with disc brakes, a/c, automatic transmissions etc. in thier roadsters, Mercs, Buicks, Chevys, hell I can name thousands of cars in here that aren't "Traditional" according to you 2 bone heads.. Or maybe I am wrong and you guys read form a different dictionary or wrote a credited dictionary. PLease enlighten us with your genius. So according to the HAMB guidelines, and Websters defintion of the word "TRADITIONAL" there is nothing wrong with this thread. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BY the way, I think the HAMB needs to rewrite the guidelines, cause of guys like you, and stop using the word Traditional without a more thorough explanation. I'm a 38 year old guy, and whats traditional to me is definitely not traditional to a guy in thier 20's, 40s, 50's 60's, 70's , 80's etc. Traditional to me is A/C, Disc brakes, Fuel injecton ( GASP!), Automatic transmisions, radial tires, Compact Disc players ( GASP!). I'm sure I'm missing some things I consider traditional because every car I've ever ridden of my generation had these items and are traditional to me..So GlassguyOC and Aussie Steve being an American as I am. I stand by your rights to Openly argue, with the HAMB and it's founders, your 1st Amendment right, according to the Bill of Rights of this great nation. Here's the definiton of that so you can fight whole heartedly. Dicks...... First Amendment Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition <DL><DD>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government ( HAMB )for a redress of grievances. </DD></DL>
For those who understand, no explanation is needed For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible... My 2 cents...
No, what I think Rick is saying, is that when a builder does what some other builder has already done, will it then be considered "Traditional". Seems like what people around here consider traditional is when someone copies something that was done by another guy a few years earlier. If you ever met Rick you would never think he's egotistical.. My 2 cents......
I don't think the definition of pre 60's tradition has changed as much as the new members here believe it has. Its always been traditional for the young guys to argue with the old guys here on the HAMB over what traditional is though...
I guess my original question was a bit argumentative. The HAMB is a confusing place. One day, a guy will get a few hundred "thata boys" for scoring a good deal on all the original 1940 Ford/Mercury parts off of a street rodder's project. Then the next day a guy will get a few hundred "thata boys" for building exactly what was described as a street rod. At the end of the day, they are all just cars. Who cares. It looks like really nice work and will no doubt be a great car.
Up until this point I have been pretty supportive of Rick posting on the HAMB even though his build are marginally appropriate for this site which should be obvious when this same issue comes up on pretty much every build thread he posts. He has in my mind been very gracious and courteous with his replies to criticism but his last post is to me a slap in the face to everyone on this board. HRod 50 if you don't find that post egotistical and belittling of what this site and the majority of the people who understand what "traditional" means on the HAMB then the stars you have in your eyes for Rick are clouding your judgement. He may be a nice guy but he put himself in a very bad light with his rant.
Regardless of what is "ASSUMED" traditional means on the HAMB then Don't use the word, or be more direct in what it means on this board. If you leave it so vague then you're opening up yourself to a contradiction of the term. I don't see Rick building a 1977 Monte Carlo, but techinically by sayiing Traditional, I can see a 20 year old kid saying it's traditional to them. You can't have your cake and eat it to. So I guess in 25 years the HAMB will go by the waste side because the new blood who have yet to be born or get into cars will not be into these "traditional" styles of builds. Can you imagine for disc brakes all around on a 1963 Lincoln, (GASP!). That's a travesty. Oh please.. Get over yourselves, we're not talking modern cars. I love all these old cars, pre 1970 ( 1969 is old as dirt to me ), with A/C , independent suspensions, eco friendly motors, etc.. There's a reason the automotive industry added these things, it's because THEY ARE BETTER.. Argue disc brakes, against drums. 5 speed automatic vs 3 speed.. Time to change with the times... As far as my Star in my Eyes for Rick. You're right, he's my builder, he hasnt screwed me on my build. He's honest, hard working, and does his work at what I consider a fair price. I think everyone should show appreciation for who builds thier car when speaking in a public forum such as the HAMB. These business owners deserve it. It's how they make thier living. My ego doesn't keep me from praising those who deserve it. The least I can do is mention my builder in this forum or any form I can. I can't stand some of these home builders, that do some metal work, but then have someone else do the motor work, or suspension and fail to mention them. They think because they paid them, that should be te extent of thier obligation. Oh but if they get what they perceived screwed they'll post that all day. Look at what happened to poor Winfield in a recent thread. Well to me Its wrong. I stand by all the builder business owners. So should you.. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BUILDER!!! Post and praise thier GOOD work... Que the trumpets.......
KEEP YOUR WORK COMING RICK. More than one off your posts has giving me new ideas to use, not to copy. You are a trendsetter. I hope other home builders see this type of post in this light. HAMB HAS GIVING USE THIS AREA TO USE & ADVANCE ARE HOBBY TOGETHER.
A slippery slope indeed. I love the merc's build plan..well thought out, inovative and intelligent..a great build for a contemporary custom. Traditional? Nope...not unless you say the innovation used in the build is traditional. This is where it gets confusing to me. The guys building customs back in the 40s-60s were using innovative parts and means. Case in point...the ala cart. Stacked dual headlights on a 29 ford pickup...late V/8 engine but an old 39 ford tranny and rearend..used an ancient Beam axle put suspended it with chrome coil springs! The entire car was an oxymoron using new and old parts. That car is now considered traditional. Rick decides not to cut the coils and use lowering blocks on this merc and instead uses a suspension design on the front that uses nova/camaro style parts from the 60s..blends it with a 90s rack & pinion steering. Interesting... I agree with Rick when he says his ideas may become traditional in the future. The guy who built the ala cart [Barris?] used modern parts and technology of the time and builders have been copying some of his ideas for many years....hell, the ala kart has even been rebuilt after it burned...betcha they used mig and tig welders to do the welding that an old buzz box and torches did in the 60s. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and be wishy-washy regarding this whole traditional thing...I'm, standing back to let you guys hash it out. In the end, it's Ryan who decides. I'll bet he stays outta this one too.
You clearly don't get what this site or "traditional" Hot Rods and Customs are about which is fine. Don't worry your arguements about what is traditional have been rehashed over and over again and guys try and redefine it to support whatever they are doing but the HAMB still survives and the majority of it's members understand. Yes there are some murky areas where there are questions about where to draw the line and they get questioned everytime they come up. I like Rick's posts he does great work and although he goes a little over the top for me sometimes I have no problem with him posting here. The problem is he has to realize that he is going to get questioned about the traditional nature of his builds every time he posts, even with you trying so hard to redifine what this site is about to support him. If he doesn't like being questioned or can't reply in a civilized manner, which up until this thread I think he has done a very good job in doing then he is going to be raked over the coals even further. I don't know if you read many of the threads on Kustoms here but just about every thread that contains a car that has an aspect that is "non-traditional" gets questioned by someone especially when it pertains to things involving the stance of a car (laying frame is not looked upon as a good thing). At least one questioning response is a given so posters have to learn to deal with it or continue to create shitstorms when they don't and insulting what the vast majority of us are here for and want to build as "simple boring no gamble traditional custom that just about anybody wth a little skill can build" is not the way to go about it. This statement alone basically states that Ricks builds are not what this site is about and he knows it so he should get so defensive when people question him about it.
I for one find the discussion with regard to the definition of "traditional" extremely interesting. I am currently in the process of a '50 Merc build and wanted to create something with a traditional feel. I like the look of of older cars when they had clean lines and remind me of our country of old. That said, I do not like the way they handle. I personally like to drive fast and yes, even like my car to stop when I push on the brake. I like a stick shift, but I am not a big fan of "3 on the tree". Bottom line: I am very comfortable on what I like and it does not include actually living in a bubble limited to 1950 technology. I believe you can have both...a traditional feel with modern conveniences. This hobby blossomed when early builders customized their rides and tailored them to their specific needs whether it be speed, comfort or simply aethetics. Making their ride better was the goal. Was Barris "traditional" when he chopped his first Merc...don't think it would fit into the technical definition. But it sure is traditional now. A true purist might argue that stock is traditional...that doesn't work for me, however. I guess it is like pornography...hard to specifically define but you know it when you see it. With our cars I guess we just have to have an open mind and understand that we each are going to have a different perspective on the matter. I am OK with this because it allows for innovation and moving the hobby forward. I for one believe my 1950 Merc with a flathead (with 4-71 blower), Mustang T5 transmission, Ford 9" differential (with posi), power brakes, power steering (with electric pump) is traditional. There are no radical body mods, no airbags, no v-butted windshield, no billet, the only chrome on the vehicle is some of what is left when it rolled off the factory floor in LA. Now I understand that some of you are going to disagree. Frankly, I am OK with that. This car is being built for me and I will built it to my taste and desire. I do appreciate folks posting their builds on the HAMB. I get a lot out of them. I am sure a lot more folks would post photos of their builds if they weren't repeatedly trying to be pidgeon holed to someone elses definition of traditional. If I do not like the direction a posted build is going, I just chose to quit looking at the thread.
Look at it this way if you went on a site dedicated to say Cival War weaponry and showed your musket with a laser site on it but tried to claim that it was relevant because "they would have used it if they had it" what kind of reaction do you think you would get. It's not pigeon holing. The HAMB is about History and how things WERE done not how they might have been done if only...... insert irrelevant modern technology here. And yes I understand that guys use modern tools etc to build there cars but again this is not a site about vintage tools but vintage hotrods and customs. I don't argue that a lot of modern additions to our cars can be a good thing. I have disk brakes and, heaven forbid, airbags on my current build but I am not so delusional as to think that when I post pictures of them I might get someone questioning if it is Traditional or not and you know what that part of my build is not traditional but it is what I want. I don't, however, try and justify it by saying traditional can mean different thing to different people or insult the membership here by suggesting that doing it the old way is simple and boring. Anyways this has gotten way off course of what looks like it is going to be a very interesting build that I look forward to seeing more of.
well said K13...many of us here have non traditional things on our cars. That doesn't change the definition of traditional and the HAMB. Now back to the build...this build thread needs to be revived with more progress pics.
I learned from being on this message board that if you have fenders on a car, you can add disk brakes, mustang II etc. all you want, because it is hidden. Now if it's open wheeled then that's where all that sh!t doesn't fly. I like this frame and all the goodies it has, now if it was my Merc, I would add a dropped I-Beam and add bags in the rear only. So far I digg this build... Keep up the good work..
Very eye opening and makes me say "Wow"...if one can legitimately compare the HAMB and traditional builds to civil war websites, re-enactments and weaponry, it may be time for me transition to another hobby.
Great build, keep posting. Everyone else can duke it out in another thread on whether this is 'traditional' or not. If you can't see it when it is parked at a show (i.e. frame, suspension, etc...) who cares... With the exception being a fenderless car of course.
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