why did ford never have a 8 in a row?

Let's not forget money.

Henry wasn't always the brilliant designer but he paid his employees more than anyone else so guess where the best minds probably went.

Shawn

 

There is a glaring truth that everyone has overlooked on the V-8 verses in-line mill. It has nothing to do with ford's success with the V configuration but a lot to do with the in-line staying around so long.

Way back when there was a general misconception that a V-8 or 12 or 16 etc. would wear one side of the cylinder way more than the other.

This has nothing to do with the success of Henry's 8 cylinder of course. But public perception played a role in the use of in-line mills for a very long time. We need to remember that automotive fabricators were often swayed more by the buying public than they were by innovation.

 

That's not a "tyrant", that's an "owner".

 

Never heard that. I'd have to see proof. It does not make sense as the Model T engine was a direct progression from (just a refinement of) the Model N/R/S engine.

Now, if I was told that the Dodge Brothers design was at the heart of the Model N engine, I might could buy that (with proof). However, even so, Dodge Brothers was just a Ford contractor until 1913. Whatever work they did for Ford was Ford's work, not their own. So, I don't think this has any merit.

Well, MAYBE, but the the 221 cid 65 hp Ford V8 was considerably smaller than the 244 cid 94 hp Terraplane 8. Back then, twenty cubic inches meant a whole lot of difference! By the time Ford's V8 grew to 239 cid (still smaller than the Terraplane 8), it had 95 hp. Even some of the 221's (the V8-74, iron head version) reached 94 hp from the factory.

 

I heard he wanted the V8 to fit in the same size engine compartment as the 4 so he didn't have to make two body/frame lines of cars.

 

J that is probably pretty close to the truth if not the truth. Build two lines of cars and possibly loose a ton of cash.

 

Cheap to build, cheap to run, and that's the same story with GM and the small-block Chev. The Chevy design was both. The best part was every design trick GM incorporated to take cost out added to the performance potential. The short stroke, stamped rockers, hollow pushrods, etc. were done for cost reasons. Simplicate and add lightness.

 

In case you guys have never seen an X-8.

 

I'm sorry if my memory is inaccurate on the point of the Dodge Brothers and the Model T engine, but I recall that their contribution was regarded as pivotal to it's sucess. I thought that while we're on the general subject of V8s vs straight sixes and eights that I would touch for a moment on the issue of economy of operation. I think that Henry's V8, which I personally love, was something of a disappointment when it came to fuel economy. I don't want to be talking through my hat on this subject, so I hope some of you with better memories will weigh in. During the Deppression fuel economy was a very important issue commercial trucking, and I think that Ford may have lost some market share as a result. I don't know exactly how Ford reacted to this, but it wasn't many years before they developed their own straight six. I know that the Ford straight six was available in the '41 passenger cars, but I think that I recall it was first offered in '39 for Ford trucks. (I'm open to correction on that and any other point!) I beleive that at that time Ford's son Edsell was calling the shots and perhaps he was more pragmatic on the matter of inline sixes. The one engine that we might mention is the 60 HP, or it's sister the small V12. I hope that those who know more about them will write a little about them. I can't say whether the 60 HP was developed strictly as an attempt at increaserd fuel economy or if it was simply an offshoot of the V12, which was developed for the Lincoln Zephyr. Does anyone know if Ford ever offered the 60 HP in trucks? I think I recall that the 60 HP V8 and the Zephyr V12 had some flaws in their design which caused them to starve for oil at times, but I might be wrong on that point. I do recall that Ford made a much larger (and far better quality) V12 for the high-end Lincoln K series. I wonder if that was based on the Leland designed V8. Does anyone have some thoughts on what Ford saw as the need for the little 60 HP V8? Were they one barrel carbs? Would they have been practical in fleet use?

 

inline 8s have a bad problem with crank whip.

Henry did invent the air cooled x 8 thought. Had one in a packard that he drove around for a year before shit canning it.

 

hudsy-wudsy, I think you are close when you consider what was produced for fuel economy during the depression. The V8 60 at 136 CI was much smaller than the regular 221 CI V8. I don't think the intro of the I6 in '41 was meant for fuel economy though since it was roughly the same size as the V8 at 226 CI. Although I am not really going to speculate too much on that. One thing I think I can point to for efficiency is that about the time Ford discontinued the V8 60 you could get the commercial trucks for a few years with a 4 cylinder, I read that this was in response to companies wanting more efficient fleet vehicles.

 

I saw a 37(or so) Ford truck converted to an early motorhome recently. It may have been on this site or the AACA. It had a V8-60 in it. I'd love to see it going up the pass to Denver

 

Carl, you have what is known as a 'mean streak'!

In my Coast-to-Coast trucking days, I can recall 'hot dog' Big Riggers goin' up that hill licketty-split, just to be stalled just shy of the summit with frozen injectors!
Does anything take that hill even yet with ease? I mean besides the torquey little V860!

LOL

 

There was a "straight eight Ford" in a Tom Waits song...

 

Yeah, and I remember Bobby Dylan's "To a Buick Six". Apparently, artisitic license means you don't need to have any idea of what you are talking about.

MN Falcon, the need for greater fuel economy might not have been a matter of cubic inches only, that's why I asked if the 60 HP had a single barrel carb. Perhaps the single barrel carbs on Dodges, GMCs, Chevs, Internationals and others may have helped fleet managers squeeze pennies. I have a recollection the depression era was the hay-day (or is it heigh-day?) governors and other limiting devices.

I'm fascinated to learn that Ford continued to build four cylinder engines for trucks. I thought that the Model C (1933 & 34?) were the last fours made (except for tractors). Do any of you have any details on a latter four? I wonder what size trucks it was capable of powering?

 

Dodge actually had more to do with Ford than you would imagine. Dodge was manufacturing parts like steering parts, crankcases, and axles. When Ford met them he was so impressed that he gave the brothers 1/10 interest in his newly formed company on the condition that they equip their plant to build Ford engines. After looking at what Ford had to offer, Horace Dodge redesigned the rear axle and other parts and made important changes in the engine. On July 17, 1914, Dodge Brothers Inc. was organized. So with that said Ford's engineers and the Dodge Brothers made some of the best engines that ever hit the street.......This info is from "The Dodge Story" by Thomas A. McPherson.

 

The engine compartments were to short on Fords for the inline 8.

 

Thank you for that. I have that book somewhere around here, but I haven't been able to locate it today.

 

Lets not forget OL HENRYwas also a NAZI sympathizer

 

The story I read somewhere was that Edsel, frustrated with his father's insistence on the flathead V-8, secretly developed an inline 6. Henry apparently got wind of it, and, one day, asked Edsel to see Henry's new scrap disposal machine...when they got to the top of the conveyor that carried scrap to a melting pot, the first thing that dropped into the cauldron was Edsel's straight 6, with a warning from Henry "never try that again."

The other story was that on a tour with Henry through Ford headquarters, reporters spotted a man sitting in an office doing nothing. When asked about it, Henry responded that "that guy once came up with an idea that saved the company a million dollars. So I have him sit there to see if he comes up with another idea. Even if he doesn't, it's worth it to keep him here."

 

The way this statement reads, I am led to believe that straight eights usually weigh twice as much as a V8 , AND that their smaller size (straight eights) make them easier to package and cheaper to produce.

Talk about having difficulty knowing how to put down what you really mean

 

Buick built a ton of 6 cylinder engines, so Mr. Zimmerman was correct. Tom Waits blew it, but it's OK. He, like Bob Dylan, is a genius and is entitled to a little faux pas.
I believe that the later Ford fours were used in pickups and light trucks and were, actually, British Ferguson engines or, at least, based on their design. Ford got into cahoots with Ferguson in the mid to late 30s

 

Well, there's your answer. The straight eight engine was actually developed by European Jews, and since Ford was an admirer of ol' Schicklegruber he wasn't going to be a part of that, vile, conspiracy and promptly rejected the long engine. Had it not been for Hank, we would all be driving straight eights and speaking Yiddish

 

Buicks were heavy cars with a narrow engine bay , no room for a v-8
until the nailhead came out, fords were much lighter

 

Reading about engine design says that inlines,4,6,8 are natually in balance,90 degree V-8's are not.I agree with those who say the V-8 was chosen cause it packages better than a long engine.

 

The Ford V-8 60 HP used a two-barrel carburetor, the 81. The Stromberg model was actually an EE-7/8. I don't remember the actual model of the Holley version.

Fuel economy is much more than a function of the number of barrels.

Jon.

 

Yes, Buick made an overhead valve six cylinder. No, the Ford flathead V-8 is not faster than a Buick straight eight. No, the crankshaft does not flex "too much" in a straight eight. I grew up with my father in Iowa. Back then, when you left city limits, there was no speed limit on the open highway. My father was an auto mechanic and always drove the fastest road car. Yep, it was a Buick straight eight. Now the light weight Fords may have been quick off the start. But on the open road, none of them every passed us at 105 mph. The Buick straight eight would run all day long at 90 plus and never give any problems. That is why we built a Buick Straight eight roadster in 1959. No Flathead Ford has ever outran it in a legal NHRA drag race. The engine has stood up to 6,500 to 7,500 rpms and has never failed or broken any major parts. Not only did it outrun all of the Flathead Fords...it beat plenty of big block V-8s , some with superchargers on them...in heads up drag racing.
So don't try to tell me about the "fast flatheads". We called them "hot water heaters". Just how many of them have cracked blocks? Attached is just one article from National Dragster. Note that the Willys is a B/Gas Supercharged coupe with a 371 Olds.The Ford coupe has a 427 big block Ford. Yes, it says the Ford ran a dead heat with us. Wrong, we beat him by 3 feet the first time. But, the timing slip said he turn a quicker ET. Gee, people had a hard time realizing that a hole shot could beat a car with a quicker ET back then. Also the line judge, that first ruled we had won, waffled and could not say for sure. Since it was so close. Therefore, we ran him again, with 6 people at the finish line. The second time, we beat him by 1/2 car lenght..








"Wasn't anybody there except me and Little Skeet"

 

And what does this "Flatheads Suck" rant have to do with why Ford never made a straight 8? Just curious

 

Seems like some were saying the straight eight would not produce enough HP or weighed too much or the crank "whipped" too much. But the truth is..the straight eight is a way better engine than a Ford flathead will ever be. Why Ford never made one? Probably because it cost more to make. Not because a flathead V-8 was better just cheaper!

P.S. I did not say they suck....you did....I said they boil water.

 

Sometimes things just ain't fair...

The straight 8 Buick may well be a better engine than the V-8, furthermore it probably is better, but..... they did not sell enough to overshadow the Ford V8, it was not hot rodded enough so that speed parts were and/or are common.

(Although, It is pretty much considered fact that straight 8 engines did suffer from harmonic vibration from the crank winding up and unwinding.)

USUALLY, it is not the "BEST" that makes the grade, it is what sells, and people fall in love with cars they can afford. For this reason, the lowly Ford V8 will always be more loved than any straight 8.

I still would like to have or even drive a straight 8 car, but they don't grow on trees.