dual quad question....

Hey fellas...... I'm sure that I have seen the answer to this somewhere before on here.... but I can't find it to save my soul........ and this might be a stupid question to some......... But, .......I'm running two wcfb carbs, an Edelbrock intake, on top of a healthy 327, I want to run an electric fuel pump as well...... here's the question, what's the differences between those Holley red and black pumps?, what might be a good, RELIABLE pump?, how much GPH will I require?, would I need a fuel pressure regulator?...... might anyone have any words of wisdom?........

 

I run the Holley Red on the coupe. Almost the exact same setup. 2X4 Edelbrock 500's on my 327. I've had zero problems. (jinx!?)

 

Do you have the intake already? The reason I ask is because the Edelbrock puts the carbs real close together. Makes it a little trickier find 2 cleaners that will fit on there. One cleaner that covers both carbs, and cheapie chrome Mr. Gasket cleaners are the only ones that I have found the will fit.

If you have the option to find a Wiend intake, you can get super cool cleaners like B*** runs on his. He is sooooo dreamy.

 

buzzard, are you running a regulator ?, or is the Holley Red internaly regulated? I can't remember.

 

Carter WCFBs like to have about 6 1/2 pounds of consistent fuel pressure, it's pretty much the standard for AFBs and Edelbrock Performers. I would definitely use a fuel pressure regulator and if you can, a high performance mechanical pump. Electric pumps are OK, but the good ones are expensive and to have a spare on-board is even more expensive. Somebody on this board mentioned the old Stewart Warner 240A pump recently, they were excellent but I have no clue as to whether they are still available. Barry Grant stuff is exceptional and very pricey. I have a 40 Ford coupe with two 500 CFM Performers. My engine is configured exactly like the Edelbrock 430 horse crate motors with one exception, I used a comperable Comp Cams camshaft. I have a Holly Red, which is their street pump, and a holly mechanical pump as well as a Holley fuel pressure regulator set at 6.5 PSI. Your almost compelled to run both pumps, because the mechanical pump won't pull fuel through the electric pump mounted back by the tank. The only reason I have kept it on the car is because the car sets for weeks sometimes without being run, and it takes a while to crank it with both carbs dried out from setting. If it ever ****s out, I won't replace it with another Holley Red. They are loud, and in my opinion, one of lesser quality then Carter and certainly Barry Grant products.

John

 

Seems like you would remember that, since you put it on. Yes, I have a Holley regulator.

 

Don't use the Holley pumps, they will leave you stranded one day.

Use the CARTER P4070 pump.

 

Duh Geezz, sorry I do remember now.

for some reason, I was racking my brain thinking you had one of the cheapie in lines like my Roadster, but I knew that was'nt right, **** I'm losing it in my old age.

 

Cheapie inline was on the '58.

 

We Buy The Carter Rotary Vane Pumps From Napa The Are Two Difernt Part Numbers Depending On Gph And Psi.i Have Put At Least 10 Of The On Car With Single Or Multi Carb Set Ups And Never Had Any Problems.
I Have Been Left Stranded By A Holly Pump Be For.i Can Post The Part Number Tomorrow Night.or If You Want Call Me At My Shop And I Will Get You The Right Part Number. (916)338-4327 Scott

 

Holley left me stranded..., but I don't blame her because I was a little drunk... !

(Went to Carter P4070 (?) and had no Problems!)

 

You didn't say what your intentions are with this car - cruise? street/strip? land speed record attempt? I started off using a Holley red pump on my street/strip car w/ two Holleys - quickly changed to blue pump and regulator (now days a black pump), and haven't had a problem - 19 years so far (rebuilt the pump last winter, just because). Yeah, the pump is kinda loud, but I can't hear it once the engine fires. I can't hear ANYTHING then...

 

Good info..... thanks fellas..........Edelbrock intake........ street use engine in a T bucket....... I wanna drive the **** out of this car...... and I hate ****ing with things mechanical all the time........so I'll be hunting down the carter.......This is a car that'll be going to the GNRS next year and most probably a contender for the Ridler........I can't have a guy in Metallica having a better looking bucket than me can I?.......

 

Well, which ever one you get you better make sure you chrome plate it

 

Ya know . . . Holley may not be at fault with some of the failures reported.

I've had a couple interesting experiences with the red pumps.

The first, fluctuating and low pressure caused by an internal regulator that would stick now and then.
Usually giving me a very low pressure - 1/2 - 1# - but I got home ok.
A piece of 400 grit wet/dry polished the bore up and no more probs from that pump.

Another pump failed due to the motor burned up.
I think that was the cause, it was very hot when I checked it.

The pump is mounted to the left side inside ch***is rail, in front of the rear axle and exposed to good air flow.
Plus it has 18 gage sheet aluminum shields between it and the tailpipe.

I'm pretty confident the heat problem was caused by low voltage.
When the new pump went in the voltage was checked - battery had 12.3 volts and the pump had 11.1. Plus or minus a few tenths - engine off.
Wiring was 14 gage, but it was a long run of wire.
Went from a fused battery source at a terminal block under the seat.
From there to the ignition switch.
Back to a cutoff switch about 3-4' away.
From there to an oil pressure safety cutoff switch on the right side of the car inside the frame rail. (Remote dual oil filter block is mounted on the right inside frame rail under the p***enger seat and is about the closest point to pick up oil pressure for the safety switch.) - (safety switch cuts off power to the fuel pump when the oil pressure quits,)
From there, the wiring runs back to the left side, then turns to the back, exits the underseat area, exits the ****pit floor and goes to the pump about 12-18" away.
No small wonder there was low voltage.
Fwiw - there's a Ford style starter ****on that's used as a prime switch.

The low voltage was cured by addition of a constant duty relay that is fed by a fused 10 gage wire about 12" from the positive battery cable side of the underseat Ford starter solenoid and controlled by the original circuitry. (This doesn't seem to be a problem cuz when the engine is running the voltage at the relay control terminal is about 12.4 volts.)
The relay - and all other electrical stuff in the car have good grounds.
From the relay a 14 gage wire about 18" long runs to the pump.

The pump now runs in a normal heat range.
That was checking it on a 100 degree day which was about the same outside temp on the day the pump failed.

Granted, a lot of cars are not running the circuitry I am, but I do see a lot of cars running too small a gage wire and some long runs of wire to the pump as well as some interesting looking connection schemes.

I imagine too, a few Holley pumps fail just because, but I would guess that most of the failures can be attributed to low voltage.
That'll burn any motor up in a short while.

Don't be thinking that low voltage at the pump won't happen to you.
You won't know until you check voltage at the pump.

In the wishful thinking dept. vs what's really going on . . . a good voltmeter wins out over hopeful thoughts every time....

 

Good points there C9, low voltage causes the motor to pull more amps. Result is more heat and then shortened life.

Although I do concur with some of the responses that the Holley red pumps do not have the most stellar reliability record. I think the Carter P4070 is a good pump for most street applications, it is a vane style pump with internal byp*** regulator. I talked to a engineering person at Carter and it should have capacity to support about 500 hp. Not too many people running more than 500 hp on the street.

 

Dennis - Do you need a Holley fuel pump? Would you like to make a trade? Maybe some ink for a pump??? I've been wanting some new ink. Just say the word and it will be a done deal. - Terry

 

Does anyone have a Carter P4070 (or P4594, P4600HP or P4601HP) that they can measure for me ??

I would like to know the overall height and the diameter at the widest point.

Thanks !

 

I hope this isn't too stupid but are you running the Carter P4070 electric pump and the mechical pump at the motor too or have you removed it? Sorry it's a little late.

 

I run dual AFB's om my Falcon and on my Bantam Altered and use Holley blue pumps with the Holley regulator and have had at least 5 years of good service out of both of them. I do have a spare in the trailer just to be on the safe side. These are drag cars only so they do not get driven for long periods on the road and that might be a big part of the long life I have had.

Jon

 

a little late, try almost 4 years.

 

and i just read the whole thing

 

No pump on the motor. Just the carter pump and mount it as close to the tank as you can.

 

hurray, we're again answering questions from 4 years ago...

 

In my '36 pickup i had a 327 with a pair of edelbrock 500's on an edelbrock tunnelram. I had the carter electric street pump, low pressure and didn't need a regulator and never had a lick of problem. Ran it for many years. That was for street diving and cruising, i wouldn't race with it. The guy i sold the truck to raced it and replaced the pump with a holley blue.

 

Boy how time flies.

 

LOL 4 years ago and McPhail is still a Grenade Inspector! Woulda thought a moderator or Ryan would have fixed that by now. He should at least qualify as an Honerary Old Fart!

 

He's number 30.