Electrical gremlins got me PLEASE HELP!!!!

Hey Guys,

well after spending 12 1/2 hours in the garage I can say I give up. I actually heard the new 235 start up for a second, but thats the problem!! The car will only want to run if I hold the starter button, it does the same thing no matter what the key position. So something is jacked up and we cant figure it out!! Ok lets start-the negative side of the coil has 2 wires going out:
1. coil feed wire
2. wire going to to the starter
on the positive side of the coil:
1. lead from the starter
2. lead from the resistor
from the ignition switch a ground and wire going to resitor and of course the hot lead from the battery to the starter, and the neg side of the battery to the block

We tried to put another ground (body) to the coil and I thought the starter motor would blow up, lots of squealing and smoke, very bad!!
We cant figure out why there is no constant power going staying on with the key in the run position.

Please help!!!!!! I give up for the night, I am going to have some dinner a hot shower and sleep llike the dead and try again tomorrow. I need some advice, what am I missing?? What could I have crossed??? All advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!
Thanks again!

 

Oh yeah you guys were right the name for the car will come to me-be earned not just pulled outta my ass. As we were getting the motor to start for 3 seconds at a time Miss Misery (nazarath) came on the radio....it was a sign and the perfect name for this car!!! So Miss Misery it is!!!!!

 

No don't call your car misery over electrical wiring, god we would all have death and pain names. You did something really obvious for sure, I can't picture it perfectly but it sounds like you have power feeding in too many times. Don't panic these guys will save you.

 

I like miss misery, if she gives you any more shit you can call her Mrs. Misery! Try bypassing the ignition and just hot wiring it, battery, coil starter. If it starts you know where to start looking. Just a thought, you may have already done that? Keep at it Mike, you dont need any fuckin sleep, get your ass back to work, I'm going to bed!

 

Are you 6 volt or 12 volt? If 6 volt do you need a ballast resister?

 

undo ALL the wiring in the ignition circuit and start fresh. sometimes its hard to see the forest through the trees. i had it happen a few weeks ago and for the life of me, i dunno what i did to cure it other than startin fresh but whatever i did worked and mine was the same symptoms. run while i held the starter button in but die the second i let off. i called a do-over and took it around the block for the 1st time a half hour later!

 

I may be wrong its been a while, power from the battery to the starter, power from the ignition switch to the starter, power from the ignition switch to the coil. Old brains and beer, so I may be wrong, I will look to see if you got it resolved tommorrow and if not I'll pull out my Ron Francis wiring book and see if he has it in there.

 

What are you using for a distributor? Is it points or electronic? Some electronic units need a seperate 12v source for the module. I would say that your problem is, either way, in the 12v wire to the distributor. The reason it is starting momentarily is that on most older point-igntion cars, there is a seperate wire from the coil + to the starter that isn't present on later models. Essentially, the igntion is firing through the wire from the starter solenoid, and as soon as you cut it off its dying. you either have a bad connection on the hot wire from the switch, or need an additional wire run from the coil + to the distributor.

 

Should only have one wire on the - side of the coil to the dist. + side gets 2 one from resistor if used and one from the R term on the solenoid. This is assuming 12 V system

 

heres a diagram straight from the helpful folks on this board. it got me up n runnin.

 

Sounds like you coil is energized only with the key in the start position. Check to see if it is wired correctly at the switch, It should be on the ign post not the start post.

If you are 12 V the wire should go through a ballast resister, and the secod wire that comes off the starter provides unresisted 12 V to the coil during cranking but once the start is released that circuit is out of play, and the resisted circuit from ign should be feeding the coil. The reister is there because a non resisted coil wats to run between 7 and 9 volts as to not over heat. Most non resisted coils were carryovers from 6 v systems so the external resister was put in the circuit to drop the operational voltage to near 6 V that the coils were designed for, but allowed 12V while crankig to assist starting. Unless the coil is marked internally resisted, it should have an inline resistor when running 12v Some GM applications used a resistance wire most used an external deal between the ign switch and the coil.

Thanks Gladepark, I was looking for m schematic but you found and posted while I was looking.

 

X2 Try a jumper wire from Bat to coil. Disconnect power wire you have now on the coil and see if it runs that way.

 

Check breaker #12 on the main panel in the house. Happened to me one time.

 

Before I tore everything out I would put a test light to the coil and see what is going on. Check with key in acc, on, and start to see where to start looking for bad spot. Check resister also sometimes the simplest things are the hardest to find.

 

All these answers and no Dimebag? WTF? Hello? Hello? Anyone home? Get your ass out of bed and get that Chevy fired up!

 

Not exactly proficient on your exact engine, but why do you have 2 wires going to the negative side of the coil? On almost all cars, there is only one...from the distributor. Maybe a second, that goes to a tachometer.
Pos. side is probably OK, if the wires are run correctly.

 

Sorry Guys, last night when I wrote this plea for help i was falling over mt own feet, I started yesterday with 2 hours of sleep and that equation dosent work well-2 sleep to 12.5 work=stupid mistakes.... Anyhow it is a 50 Chevy Deluxe Coupe, 53 full pressure 235, switched to 12v with points. I drove the car in the garage before the swap and nothing was cut or clipped as far as the wiring goes since the swap, with the exception of the headlight-I have a Rebel 9+3 wiring kit to install next week or so. The idea was to start the motor, break in cam, tune carbs(try anyhow), hook up exhaust and then new wires on group at a time so we don't run into too many problems!!! Something simple is wrong, and we just gotta figure it out..but once again here is what I have maybe now that I have rested it will be a little more clear.

2 wires from neg of coil 1 for the tach, and 1 going to the starter

wires from pos side of coil-
1 going to the stock dizzy to fire points
1 from starter to complete circuit
1 from resistor-from other side of ign circuit

from the ignition 1 wire from the ign to the resistor and 1 ground

battery leads
positive goes to starter
neg to thermostat housing for good clean ground

the car will run for seconds as long as I have my finger on the starter button, but once released it is like throwing a kill switch to the motor, so I am not getting constant RUN power to something- I must be bypassing the ign switch somehow.
I think i am going to take the wiring diagram on the page and starting fresh, it is something simple that we must have crossed last night, especially because the car was wired long time ago by Uncle Bob, and Uncle Bob only had red wire-which makes this even harder!!! Any advice is always appreciated!!

 

Ballast resistor is bad. When you start the car you bypass the ballast resistor thats why it runs when you have the button pushed.

 

+ side of coil from ballast.
- side of coil to points.

small starter terminal to coil+ which bypasses ballast during crank.

3 wires total

 

Good answer if he were wired correctly..but he ain't even close (if wired as described).

 

Isn't "Mrs Misery" kinda redundant?

 

Only if he's married.
I agree with fuzzy. Bad resistor.
WAIT! I see you were working on your car with 2 hrs of sleep. Hell, who knows what could be wrong!

 

Yep I'm married, you can't tell by the posts and the fact that I have am used to smacking my head against a brick wall-sounds like a married man to me!!! Also 50 Suburban said neg to points-is that right??? don't they need power to make them fire?

 

NO! Never run + to points. They're the ground side of the circuit.
+ to coil + only, with the ballast inline.

 

You may have popped your condenser and ruined your points.
Gladeparkflyer's diagram is correct.

 

The coil wiring should reflect the poloarity of the system in which is installed. 6V positive system + terminal to points, since the points go to ground, 12V negative system - termnal to points. So never say never.

Look at the schematic assure your coil reflects the car's polarity, then simplify. detach all wires except those necessary to the primary job runing the engine with the key in the on position. For the purposes of this exercise Ign term on switch to coil +
coil - to distrubutor. Turn on ign, and with the dizt cap off open and close the points with a screwdriver or other appropriate tool, you should be able to see a spark if the points are energized through the ign switch. No spark no power trace the wire and assure it is connected to the ign terminal of the switch and with a circuit probe or voltage meter assure you have power at that termiinal with the switch on. If you do
and have spark at the points, you should be good to go assuming that the condenser is good.

If you don't have power at the ign terminal of the switch, then check the power in from the battery or the ammeter. If you have power in but no power at ign terminal than you switch is toast.

Make a wire with aligator clips on both ends connect one to battery Pos and the other to coil pos, the car should start and run. to shut off pull on end of the wire.

If you good to go that way, then you need ot check the above items to assur a complete circuit through the switch to the coil in the ign on position.

 

I've been married twice so .....NOPE!

 

Dimebag wrote:
wires from pos side of coil-
2 wires from neg of coil 1 for the tach, and 1 going to the starter
1 going to the stock dizzy to fire points
1 from starter to complete circuit
1 from resistor-from other side of ign circuit

from the ignition 1 wire from the ign to the resistor and 1 ground

Sounds wrong to me.
Coil neg to distributor and tach. Why coil neg to starter?
Should be a full 12V from starter to ciol pos.

Why ground from ign sw?

 

Hi Guys, thanks for all the help, but my Dad looked up a wiring diagram and figured out what we did. It fired right up and after spending couple of hours getting the Rochesters to quit leaking its running. Not super well but its alive and now the de-bugging begins-Hunnert Here We Come!!!!

 

so your not going to tell us where you screwed up??????