Purpose-Built Autocross Hot Rod ?????

I don't know how to post this video of the Goodguys event in Charlotte,N.C. but my fellow club member Glenn Dodd built this car for the
one lap of America and it's pretty competitive,,,he smoked them ar Goodguys



This link takes you to Carolina Rod Shop home page and that is where the video is located.about half way down the page,,,funny hearing his daughter screaming. HRP

http://www.carolinarodshop.com/

 

Here's a pic of it.

 

Rodster

Looks like Buckshot is a pretty good start toward the autocrosser you want. Bolt on a set of 14's with wide low-profile Hoosier R rubber, and you'd have the grip and low ground clearance you ask for. Since the Goodguy's event is really a half-speed autocross on super smooth asphalt, I'd be tempted to disconnect the springs and run on bump stops, just like NASCAR. RPM makes real cheap steering arms, so a bolt on set tuned for the track shouldn't be too pricey. My mentor told me," When you can run ten laps with the pedal flat on the floor, then you can ask for more horsepower!" Then there's always NOS..

By the way, the first Lotus 7 was built in 1957, thus would not be legal. So we won't compete head to head next year.

 

I don't think the 14" rims would clear the brake package of a C4 or C5 Vette (which is what it appears to have based on the wheels). A Cup car doesn't have the springs "disconnected" when running on bump stops (how would you do this?). And, if you were running on bump stops, you'd better have some stiff sway bars and some damn good double adjustable shocks. I do agree that most of the vehicles I've seen compete in this regularly overpower their tires , but isn't that part of what hot rodding's all about?

 

I LOVE the looks of this thing. Another possible design candidate for the autocrosser rod? This image was posted in the back pages of the Street Scene I got today, July 2010, p174. A space filler. I have no idea how old the photo is, or any of the basic 5 Ws - who, what, when, where, or why. I'm thinking it's rear engine, and possibly mid engine versus a tail hanger VolksRod deal. It reminds me a lot of a very similar car that debuted a few years ago, a black, flamed, chopped pickup that had a mid-engine Subaru for power.

If you know more about the car or builder, please post it. Gary

 

These photos were posted on another thread. Taken yesterday at GG Indy.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483569

 

Holy Crap! That thing is NICE. And he's got the same mill as my little truck (his is a lot prettier). I'll get to the GG posts as I've been away for a few days. Thanx for the pix. Gary

 

Kinda Streetrod meets F1..........not Trad but would be a hoot to drive!

 

Yes, but the Lotus 6 was built in '52. The main visual difference between a "6" and a "7" is that the 6 has cycle fenders and the 7 has clamshell fenders.

Lotus Mk VI




Lotus 7

 

Krusty: Take another look at the second photo at the head of the thread. I think the drum brakes on that beam axle are far more likely to have come from an early Ford, than from any vette. It sure looks like the axle is in hard contact with the framerail. I'm not sure that anyone makes double adjustable Houdaille shocks.

The dominant factor in cup racing is areo, which require the cars to run low, flat and level. The formula for this is super soft springs, stout bars, and bump stops calibrated to just avoid coil bind. Springs are just tall enough to get the car through the templates.

How do you disconnect the springs? Pull some leaves, add another means to locate the axle. Obviously double adjustable coilovers and panhard rods would be the fastest solution, but then the modifed wouldn't be a modified anymore. Early transverse leaf springed racers used a "dead" shackle on one side to approximate a panhard bar, so that would be the traditional solution.

The origional post was on purpose-building a car to compete at the Goodguys version of autocross. How much do you want to spend for a shot at a set of tires once or twice a year. I suggested some fairgrounds bolt-ons that should make ths B3 a little more fun, and a bit more competetive with the 32.

Modernbeat: You're right about the Lotus 6... but then, I doubt the average motor vehicle department bureaucrat would know the difference

 

I think I should just add a wider set of tires on the front of my Coupe and let it rip!!!

 

Glenn,
As low as your rides sit...go for it.
I remember the first time I saw your Glass Rod. That little bugger looked like a slot car going through the corners on the road to your house.

 

Do you have pics of the frame?

 

Yeah, it does really handle pretty darn good to be honest with you....I should just enter it into a local event some weekend and have a hoot with it.

 

As I think back to my autocross days many years ago, it seems to me that low is best, but you also need to be able to see over the front of the vehicle for a view of the cones. I think a low slung track style T-roadster would be good. No need for a huge engine. Weight balance front and rear is important for handling. I would think a small six would be good. A quick change rear might help when running on various tracks, some longer than other. On short courses with lots of tight turns a center hand brake could be an advantage to do those hand brake turns. Lots of possibilities when thinking up stuff like this. Oh, let me check that lottery ticket number, now where did I put that winning number........?

 

I built this as a type of roundy roundy capable drag car, but I sort of lost direction as I threw it together and it ended up more like some sand racer eventually. It had a 400hp SBC and Powerglide, set well back, and when stomped on it took off like a scalded cat, zero wheel spin, just fierce acceleration, and it turned a corner pretty tight too. Those black things are the stumps of a roll bar that I made removable.



Here's an old car from the UK, that has a pretty impressive turn of speed:

 

Buy the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-1138885-1280728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Look at the LOCOST web site: http://www.locostusa.com/

Nick

 

I just found this thread and interestingly enough I am also thinking about building a multi-use car (auto-cross, drag, land-speed and touring, is that too much to ask ).

I am a novice to race car building (I have built a drag car though for a super stock class), but I think the main issue for auto-cross is body roll as the above picture illustrates. All that weight transfer to the outside of the corner would really hurt the handling.

To solve this couldn't a person just use a stout anti-sway bar front and rear and keep the straight axle. I noticed that even the IFS cars didn't seem to have sway bars. I would think the sway bars would be a cheap and effective way to get significant handling improvements while still maintaining a traditional look.

Thoughts?

 

Low, wide, light, quick and nimble works for just about every type of automotive endeavor I can think of, except for stuff like towing trailers, hauling gravel, going off- road, or taking on speed bumps and pot holes. As far as multi-purpose vehicles go, the lower you go the fewer things you can do well and, unless you do it right, so does ride comfort and suspension compliance as travel gets reduced in the process. This is especially true if the road doesn't also get smoother as your car gets lower - like at a race track - eh? Of course, our roads are a far cry from race track smooth. Sure, low looks cool, but you can't do fuck all down there but wallow in your ego. Heck, you might just feel good if the car will crawl back up onto your trailer. Gary

 

The best MULTI PURPOSE vehicle is a late model factory stock production machine.
No kidding,

If you want something very special that does only one thing really well, but has a whole lot of other very serious disadvantages and limitations, then go to it, and build something yourself.

But if you think you can do it better than a multinational car company, that has the very best engineers, and the very best test facilities, and budgets in the tens of millions, you are dreaming.

Anyhow, what you need to go around corners fast is a nimble sports car not a hotrod.
Hotrods have their roots in drag racing and Bonneville. No corners !!
Think small light, low, wide. And the very last thing it needs is a cast iron V8 engine at the front, or beam axles at either end. Take all those three away, and it ain't no hot rod anymore.

Even a purpose built car would have difficulty beating one of these Ariel Atoms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Atom

 

This thing is friggin hideous. Tube framed kayak with stupid trailer fenders. Looks like something posies built.

This whole hobby is founded on taking a car that doesn't do anything very well and making it do something pretty good. Whether it is cruising, racing, or just flat looking better. that is our jobs as hot rodders, take ugly out, take the slow out, get rid of the shitty rid, etc.

So that's your advice buy something late model?! We're talking about autocross but it's still the hamb for damn sakes.

 

It just takes a lot of money

[/quote+friskyspatula;555244]
I am a novice to race car building (I have built a drag car though for a super stock class), but I think the main issue for auto-cross is body roll as the above picture illustrates. All that weight transfer to the outside of the corner would really hurt the handling.

To solve this couldn't a person just use a stout anti-sway bar front and rear and keep the straight axle. I noticed that even the IFS cars didn't seem to have sway bars. I would think the sway bars would be a cheap and effective way to get significant handling improvements while still maintaining a traditional look.[/QUOTE]


Sway bars are only part of the equation, too much bar will overload the outside tire and unload the inside. I've got sway bars on my roadster and they help immensely but don't hide any of the flaws that are inherent to a car that is swinging on beam axles at both ends.

That said, body roll is not a bad thing. Excessive body roll is an issue. There is lots you can do to make a traditionally "styled" car handle and I touched on them earlier. You will never make a super trad car handle better than and ugly car with good tires. But if you are willing to make a few compromises AND learn to drive AND have a spare set of tires to kill cones with you can have a lot fun.

 

Okay, a little shameless self promotion here. The car certainly wasn't built as a parking lot terror, but with a mild 350, 200R4 and 3.90 rear gears it gets after it.

My dad running the auto cross at Goodguys Del Mar 2009, spins it!
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Me showing the old man how it's done... except for that little sideways action on lap 2
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The old man trying to cut it smooth and clean, still not as fast as the kid!
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Notice my wife trash talking my driving skills? That's always good for the ego!

 

That stock standard production Atom would bust your "traditional Hot Rod ass" on ANY autocross course. And in any other form of racing that has lots of corners.

And that is what we are talking about here. Sheer performance, and HANDLING, and nothing else.

It may look weird, but it would be an absolute hoot to drive.

An yes, a late model high performance sports car will have more silence, road holding, handling, acceleration, comfort, fuel economy, than anything Fred and Homer can build with a stick welder out in the driveway.

The reason is simply money and resources.
If you think a Formula One Team is just some guys welding up stuff in a garage at weekends, with plenty of beer and loud music, you might be surprised how really sophisticated the serious professionals
(with the financial resources) are at building really fast competitive machinery.

 

I think you just took a wrong turn...

You're still on a Site that focuses on Trad Hot Rods and Customs.

 

Yes but THE THREAD is about a purpose built Autocross hot rod that can actually win. And that is a very different deal to a traditional show rod.

 

Reply to your Edit...

You are completely missing the point.

The original poster was asking about budget pre '55 vehicles that could be built to autocross.

A store bought vehicle does not fit the bill.

And as effective as it is, it is ugly...


And if you go back to fairy recent history ( too new for the HAMB, even ) there was a F1 car that was built on a very small budget, in a space that was about the size of a one car garage.
And raced.

Look up the Connew...

 

And my reply to that was, the best basis for a MULTI USE COMPETITION CAR would be best based on a late model sports car.

The question was not, "what is the best looking type of traditional rod ". I just answered the posters question. And I was not the first poster to start talking about sports cars.

What would be wrong with getting all the mechanicals from a late model Mustang or Corvette, and fitting a hot rod body ?
It has been done many times.
Modern engines, transmissions, and suspensions have far more to offer when building something that can actually win, as opposed to eighty year old original parts.

 

No, I was the first to talk about sports cars.

Traditional ones...

 

Yes, and sports cars have always been dual use.
Built as day drivers, and SPORT driving.
The whole history of hot rodding is hopping up stockers to go hell faster.
But mention sports cars, and "shock horror" that is not rodding.
If it has a body and chassis loosely based on an old car, it can have all late model Ferrari bits underneath, and still be a rod.