I've read enough posts to convince myself that I NEED one. I'm writing riceman for a set of plans next. But I have a couple of questions I need help with. 1. I really like the idea of running 10.0 or slower. I'm old enough to realize I won't ever be the absolute fastest, so 10's is a nice price break to stop at. But will a 140" mid 60's FED look silly going that slow? I'm thinking injected small block chevy set up as a jr fueler. 2. What size slicks? and what brand? Goodyear, M&H, Hurst pie crusts? 3. What rearend? I would like one with the highest pinion, so I can run the maximum dump with the engine. 8-3/4, 9", Olds ??? Oh, 4. if I base some of it off a Don Long, and some off of a Woody Gilmore chassis, could I call it a Long Woody ???
My first dragster ride was a six cylinder 120" wb car that ran in the mid 11's at the time (late 60's) and it was a fun ride. Not all of the cars of that era were tire smoking 8 second or better cars. The mopar 8.75 rear is probably the best choice as the Olds is hard to get parts for now--even the 8.75 is not over endowed with parts availability. If you have the budget a 12 bolt Chevy center in a Ford style housing is probably the best bet but that package is a bit "spendy". I would use a 10" Torque Thrust wheel and the appropriate size tire, probably a 29.5" or 30". The original J/F cars usually ran an 8" rear wheel but that might limit your tire choices except for the pie crust stuff and I am not sure about their durability under race conditions. Roo
I would use a ford 8.8,they are stronger,cheaper and more plentifull than a 12 bolt..I have cars running 7.70's at 3000lbs no problem...A 33 spline axle package is cheap through moser..
Rooman is right on and let me add to this. Depending on your size, engine and driveline, adjustments in the dimensions of my blueprint will be necessary. The rearaxle centerline to the motorplate on the drawing is 21'' for a direct drive, 7.5'' deep clutch can and a short spline coupler to a 8 3/4 rearaxle that is 26'' flange to flange width. With a short powerglide, the motorplate would be out to 32'' minimum and that will also change the motor dump angle. The blueprint is set up for a 30'' slick. 2'' of oil pan clearence should be minimum when you set the motor angle. Even with a 1300 pound car with a carburated 350-400 hp motor will get you into the 9 second pass range. If you decide to have your chassis built by a shop, pick one that has the experience and will work with you on what you want, it is your car and most important, YOUR MONEY !
So that would be a pumpkin that bolts into a 9" housing, but takes 12 bolt gears & carrier? The 12 bolt has a higher pinion than the 9". Thats a plus, who makes them? and is the pinion location much different from the 8-3/4 rear? Torque Thrusts are a given. Everything else is subject to change I'll talk to Hurst about their tires, I live pretty close to them. Thanks for the help, I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. Eric
With that in mind, I'm a pontiac nut too, so maybe one of the old 4 cylinder half a 389 motors would be a better choice. I have a single ram air head I've been hanging onto for 20+ years, I could build a pretty cool vintage motor, and be able to keep it relativly slow, yet period correct and fun.
On the 12 bolt in a 9" housing, the Strange bare center is $423.72 and a complete unit with gear set, spool and coupler is $1260.52. The biggest problem with the Mopar 8.75 rear is parts availablility as Strange lists only one race gear set (4.86). For what you are wanting to do the street gears should be sufficient but the 8.75 has become the "forgotten" rear lately. Roo
It looks like your going for more of a nostalgic look. If that's the case stay away from the 9" if you want to run alot of motor "dump". Or you'll have to get creative with the top rails. When me and pete built Conder's 2 dragsters I had to re-mount the motors later for more dump. I could only get about 5* down max.
For 8.75 Mopar stuff, talk to Randy's Ring and Pinion right in your neck of the woods in Portland. No parts shortage there! I run one in my avatar, and he stocks about 7-9 different ring and pinion combos, axles, internal stuff like spools, bearings, etc. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RrGDPXOQtI I built this a few years ago. I am having a ball. It is a 8 3/4 mopar diff I narrowed (sent axles out for resplining. Probably should have just had a set of Hi Strength made. $ wise not a big difference)Wheelbase is very short. 96 inch which bothers a lot who dont understand how a chassis works and steers. I have another under construction at 130 inch. Not because I need the extra length. Just because I might sell it and dont want to have to justify every time why it is short. Mine is a slant six. I have had more fun with this as an old fart. I think I have enjoyed this car more than all the big cars i had over the years. I hope you find the enjoyment I have had with mine. Don
If YOU think you need one - well then certainly you are absolutely RIGHT!!! 1. Not from the cockpit it won't % from any other seat - well it really don't matter so why sweat it? ! 2. If you're going "purist" - narrow (under 10" wide) is probably where you'll want to be. Look over the sizes carefully and don't design yourself into a corner by going with a limited availability size. Other than that you can follow Pat Foster's advice "If it looks right, then it is right" (I think that's how the quote goes) 3. 8-3/4 will definitely live - as will most any other you can find - this is probably an area of personal preference. 9" parts are literally falling out of the sky - so many opt for those. What ever you decide I doubt you will think about much when you're dropping the hammer - at least I don't ;-) 4. Sounds like you're ahead of the game, I'm still trying to come up with a name for mine ;-( What ever you decide I can say for certain you're gonna have a blast. zoom zoom!!
the engine would be a 500ci with a tunnelram two 750cfm holley the tranny dont no jet so no clu for the axle onley that it`s gone be a 9"ford perhaps you got any sugestions
With that sort of motor you probably need a tire that requires a 12" rim or thereabouts. Gear ratio will depend on the tire size (or vice versa) and how fast you want to go--if your 500" motor is stout enough 7.5's should be no problem. Roo
Using the speed calculator at RPM Outlet, http://www.rpmoutlet.com/dyno.htm for a 1600 pound car with a rear wheel HP of 600 your ET should be 8.08 with a speed of 168.74 in the 1/4 mile with the correct gears and tire combination. what that is I have no idea.
As a fellow professed Pontiac Nut (crazy person) why not build a stout stock Pontiac 400. The one I had in my 3200 pound Firebird ran the ¼ in 13.4. That same engine in a 1600 hundred pound car (the calculator is getting a work out today) would be 10.17 at 133.93 I will be running that same engine, as a stroker in the FED that Roo Man is building and the calculator says with 450 rear wheel horse power (Im guess here engine dyno was 550), 8.89 ET at 153.3 So if after the build of the 400 you wanted to go faster it is not hard to do it. One more comment, you said I'm old enough to realize I won't ever be the absolute fastest, so 10's is a nice price break to stop at I said essential the same thing (Im 60), it only took one year to trade in the stock 400 for the stroker, and I am now in the process of build another Pontiac as a blower. Ok, one more comment, when you said if I base some of it off a Don Long, and some off of a Woody Gilmore chassis, could I call it a Long Woody you became a lifelong friend of Roo Man.
More questions. I got the 8-3/4 rearend, powerglide, and engine block laying in the middle of the garage floor... now what ???... How wide do I need to make the frame? My shoulders are are 24" wide with my arms pulled forward like sitting in the car. Is that how wide the frame should be inside the rails? I have some specific questions about lengths for someone with a shorty powerglide. How long from the end of the stock case to the end of the output shaft? Then do I use a coupler, or a U-Joint to hook up to the rearend? Thanks, Eric
Don I though that the senior dragster rules says that the wheel base is 120" why are you going to 130"
The best way to set things up is with a line up bar that bolts to the rear end housing and runs through the main bearing tunnel of the block and even for a one off build the $295 cost from Mark Williams is probably not a bad deal. It will keep all the important stuff in place while you build the pipe around it. A jig is nice but a flat floor will also work (see the old pix of Don Long building Ed Pink's Old Master car). Using a couple of 4 x 8 sheets of plywood (or MDF)as a base will allow you to mark a centerline for the car and also screw blocks in place to locate stuff. Figure out what diameter tire you want to run and set the axle housing at the correct height using jackstands, bricks, wood etc and then place the engine to allow for oil pan clearance etc. Old style cars had a lot of motor "dump" angle but the newer ones run them just a little down in the front. Although you can run the trans and rear end connected with just a male and female coupler you may find it advantageous to use Strange Engineering's short shaft package which will allow you to pull the trans without moving the motor. This is a two piece coupler with an internal/external spline shaft for the trans and and another that slides over that for the rear end connection. A collar holds everything in place and allows the assembly to collapse to get the trans out. It comes in a short version (4" max trans to rear end coupler) and a longer model which covers from 4" to 6" and the prices range from $165 to $198 (for the case hardened long version). Once the major components are positioned you need to sit on a box or whatever with your legs over the rear end and work out how high your butt needs to be and that will determine how high the shoulder hoop needs to be and how far back from the rear end it should be so that you are comfortable. Which motor you use will determine where the frame rails go at that point, remembering what stuff (oil filter, starter etc) hangs off the side of the block (Check carshopowner's thread to see what happens with the oil filter line block on a Pontiac). Once you have an idea of tubing placement you should get a mid plate blank (Mark Williams, S&W, Chassis Shop etc) and notch it to suit the frame. This will then locate the tubing at the mid plate. From then on it is a connect the dots exercise. Do put the motor uprights directly under the mid plate and front mounts and follow the NHRA/SFI guidlines as to tubing in the cockpit area so that it will pass tech for the performance level that you are planning. It also helps to build a little "above" the spec level as those thing have been known to change over the years. We built carshopowner's car to the top fuel spec so that it would be good for the forseeable future. Definitely make the car wide enough that you are comfortable when wearing a fire suit but keep it as tight as you can because you don't want to rattle around if you ever have an incident. A shorty 'glide should be right at 18" from the front face to the back of the housing. For more ideas check threads by carshopowner and King Chassis (Brian Fox) or go to Glenn's (carshopowner) website www.theleverfamilysite.com and scroll down to the dragster build section. Roo
How to shorten a 9" rear axle to 32" perhaps with some pictures And i need some pictures of a fed chassis (200")that`s build by a Dave Tuttle drawing or by him self
Thanks Rooman. That's like a step by step guide. I've printed it out, and will read it a few more times. One more question. I pulled the 8-3/4 apart yesterday. The brakes went in the trash, and the axles are ready to, but dang they are beefy. I don't like the idea of the small bolt pattern, I'd rather go GM. But the axles are definatly big enough to be cut & resplined. What do you say? Shorten the stock ones, or go with aftermarket?
If you are only planning to run a low horsepower deal they will probably be OK but we all know how things get out of hand in that area. A new set of Strange Pro Race axles (28-35 spline) with bearing and a 1/2" stud kit retail at $450 with retaining plates. The 4.5" bolt pattern should be plenty strong and there are lots of Ford wheels out there. Roo
Having resplined axles myself I would still reccomend that you pony up for a GOOD AFTERMARKET set. You can then for very little extra dough - step up to bigger splines, spool etc. Granted there are 2 different schools of thought on the spool thing - I run one with no problems - 35 spline axles - big bearing Strange case - all "cheap" upgrades for the peace of mind IMHO.
BNHDII re 120 inch vrs 130 The new car aint a Sr Dragster. It is for a more junior person with a large bulging wallet I hope. I am more than satisfied with my Sr dragster as it is and am confident it will serve me well till in am too old to drive it. ( maybe 3 or 4 years at best. )Personally there is nothing about it I dont like. Don
If you are 24 at then shoulders then 22 will be fine between the upper rails. I am 30 at the shoulders and I made mine 28. I am comfortable and come home without the bruises on the upper arms my buddies get from their rials. How wide between the bottom rails? The big buggaboo is to make sure the engine will sit down in where you want it to sit. The rails have to be wide enough at the front of the engine area to accomodate that. Oil filters or oil pumps with BB Mopars and the new hemi as well can be a problem if you dont allow for it. Make sure when you fit it up everything is on the motor that will be near the upper and lower rails. I run my U joint right on the rear end . Just one. I have the slip joint out a bit more than normal but made sure I had lots of spline engagement. A powerglide slipjoint is short compared to a mopar so you would have to be careful there. Maybe in that instance a coupler would be better. Even an Econo coupler (or Greek coupler as they were know back in the day. ) That would give you a bit more leaway. i got lucky mine worked like it did I was as surprised as anyone but I wouldnt do it that way again. I think i was extremely fortunate to be able to get it to work. It was more good luck that anything else. i was quite prepared to make a coupler for it but everything fit so well i just never did. Probably couldnt do it again though. Don
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