Safety, craftsmanship and pride.

I think part of your above statement is incorrect. To me there is a difference between a street rod and what "we" like on the HAMB. We're not paying homage to street rods. My dad has a subscription to the NSRA magazine. I knew there was something I didn't like about most of the cars in it, before I discovered the HAMB.

I'm not one for the overly scenester thing or being demeaning.

 

hey dude are you trying to ruin a potential run of "parts cars!" by shaming someone into adding safety into their build? keep it down will ya someone might look up the definition and apply it!

 

So I am an FNG here and maybe shouldn't jump in...but I will.

There have been many good comments made here. Especially that cheap is not necessarily unsafe, but that good judgement is required especially with critical components that keep cars from laying havoc to the streets/pedestrians/drivers/passengers.

I disagree with the idea that young people are as a group a problem. There are people in every generation that you couldn't teach good ideas to with a tire-iron. They have to learn by hard-knocks and direct experience. The young are always invincible in there own minds.

Here is the difference. The truly stupid/unteachable of the older generation have gotten themselves killed/maimed or moved on out of hot rodding. The young ones are still with us...

 

So if you don't write checks for megabucks to summit and kugel and wilwood
ad infintum, it's not safe. Is that right!

 

I've come to think that doing something "cheaply" ends up sacrificing quality. Just like when I buy a "cheap" hole saw, wrench, drill bits, pair of socks, etc. When something is done "less expensively" I see a lot more ingenuity, problem solving, and research to find a way that will simply cost less but achieve a good result.

This is everywhere... from hot rods to a pair of boots.

 

I don't think anybody said that. You misheard it.

 

fb48, just want to say thanks for doing this post, no one is slamming "young" builders here. Right way or wrong way, young or old, what matters is Big Brother is watching, and writing down in his little black book everytime a lets just say " stupidly modified " car is in a accident, or has a unlawful incident. Some of us understand that every incident is one step closer to our hobby becoming extinct. I am a member of the N.R.A., and we know what its like to have very, very important people want to extinguish our hobby from existence. FOREVER. FWIW, Elvis just left the building, didn't you guy's see the MEN IN BLACK movie?

 

I agree 100%

I don't like to think about people who are happy to cobble something together to save $5.

Whats ones life worth... or better yet the mini van filled with 5, 3 year old children that the cobbled car collides with head on?

Craftsmanship is learned over a long period of time, and sometimes we must defer to others to ensure quality, and safety.

If a project takes a year longer, and cost $2,000 more to be safe, and of higher quality... isn't it worth the wait, time, planning and forethought?

 

Man you struck a nerve with me. Anyone that knows me well is probably thinking "oh shit, wait 'til he reads this..."

I'm so fuckin sick of the cobbler's way of doing things it makes me want to quit working for people. Not just the body work (a big issue for me) but all of it. I dig here you're at with tradition and old ways but that should never mean GARBAGE. I grew up fortunate to have a father that was an old hotrodder. He never cobbled stuff together. None of it was dirty, rusty, worn out parts or left as nasty as could be. It was the best he could afford or the best he'd save up the money for then procede. I've actually been told by some that what I do and how I do it doesn't matter anymore, nobody wants it. Talk about out of touch. I see the creativity and craftsmanship you excecised on your car. That's as it should be. Ryan's coupe isn't a cobbled up garbage car but it's satin black. There's thousands of examples of how it was done and how to do things right and of course, safe. In the end I have to say you can't save em all but I figure if it can't be done right with all of your abilties brought to bear then don't even start.

Then there's B O N D O. WTF is wrong with the body finishers over the last 4-5 years? Since when are you supposed to bondo up the whole fuckin car then sand it down some? How do any of these no metal finishing fucks think the panels are going to fit back to the car if they're 1/4 thicker than they used to be? Why do the worthless TV shows tell their viewers this is how it's done? I better stop now. I'm gettin fired up just talkin about it. I'm glad my shit isn't done that way and for the record, I know what I do matters. The shop's full of work because of my standards and practices.

 

Ooh, I know the answer about big brother watching the hot rodding hobby. I learned it here on the H.A.M.B. WHEN THEY PRY THE STEERING WHEEL FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS ! I'll be safe now, no worries.

 

he should probably install 4 wheel disc brakes, shoulder belts and air bags too.

Do hot rods have crumple zones?

 

Good thread Brian, it is obvious that we have all thought about this subject.
Where i have a real problem is that the perception of safety and proper technique change. It is a slippery concept. I have worked on some very old racecars and they were nothing short of treacherious - at one time it was state of the art and considered as safe as necessary. To prove my point - go to a museum and look inside of a Mercury Capsule, my trashcan at home is roomier, and it was the absolute very best that the most talented people in the US could create. Or, the fact that Don Garlits' FED that cut itself in half was considered amoung the very finest in the country.
Safety and quality workmanship is relative, for those of you pointing fingers at dumbasses i wonder if you have 3 point seatbelts; disc brakes; radial tires; good working windshield wipers? Or are those too modern and interfer with a period correct piece. I saw a tech piece on how to build a '32 chassis using 6' pieces of strapping butt welded together to create a frame rail and people on here applauded the guy for quality workmanship.
Do i know of what i speak? You bet. It is pretty simple, if you copy how they built a hot rod in the 50's with a 125hp flattie and you stick a 400hp crate motor in it it is going to be unsafe. People think of welds as the benchmark of quality, as if the prettier the weld the more structurely sound it is. After something is welded then it is ground down, filled and painted - and this is considered as good building practice! Quality? Some guys building a belly tanker showed this technique on here, grinding the welds and painting the chassis! People that read that article think now that that is how it is done, the proper way!
I can't apologize for my rant, this is a sore subject for me. And if you guys heap a pile of shit on me for it then so be it, i understand that some of my statements are controversial and inflamitory. If i offend any particular individual it wasn't my intention to do so for if i have a grief with somebody i will approach them directly. I build cars for a living, go to my photos and you'll see promods, funny cars; top sportsman etc being built in my shop and i have nightmares about somebody getting hurt because of something that i made/fixed/built etc and i know about safety.
Thanks for reading, oj

 

It's his car, and he can do what he wants, but FRONT brakes, and lap belts are always a good idea, and might save his life one day. That is, unless brakes and seat belts are considered gay, and he doesn't want to appear like a "gold-chainer sell-out" to his ultra-traditional 18 yr old hot rod super genius pals who know everything.

Hot Rods have a crumple zone...the entire car. Thus the reason for sensible items like real brakes and belts.

 

Makes a great deal of sense to me.

firstnomad
www.angelfire.com/jazz/flatlandstudio

 

Young guy AND safety freak here. Without craftsmanship it's just a car. Just stopping by to represent Gen X'rs who "get it".

Leevon

 

One of the reasons I read the HAMB is because I LEARN more about doing things the right way here. I didn't know everything when I started my build. Still don't, but I know more. Sure you can't fix stupid, but collectively this board is already doing a great service for those who seek to learn.

 

Nobody's mentioned the problem of "instant gratification". If it takes more than a week to build a hot rod, many young people lose interest. We see this every class here at the school, and it's something we have to get "in your face" with some students over (guess that was piss poor grammar...).

Welding over rust? When was that EVER a good idea??!! But it happens because it just takes too long to clean the parts. Using whatever piece of metal was laying around to fabricate a steering or suspension component when a little digging or a few bucks will get the right material... It's just quicker to do it wrong. Many young people don't CARE if it's done right or even safe...they just want to drive it NOW. And it's not just hot rodding...the sport compact crowd is as bad or worse in many ways.

I teach this stuff because it took me 20 years to get to where I feel competent about my ideas and abilities and I want to pass all those little tricks and tidbits on. I have 12 weeks per class...

 

I can't sleep knowing somthing I built isn't safe. I know that not just my life but others are on the line. Everything I build is on the cheap, but the brakes work damn good and all susp parts are new. I tend to over build everything, ya can' t have it let go on ya.

 

I work in the service department of a Nissan-Subaru dealer. Recently, the boss had two of the senior techs rewire a trailer (nothing special, 4 flat connector and no clearance lights).

They replaced the light units and ran new wire. And 'leccy taped the wire nuts they used to connect to the new light units.

You might be a senior tech, SAE, ATSE certified to within an inch of your life, but you are still a parts changer compared to many of us here on the HAMB.

It's always thinking quality, THAT'S the key to a great build.

Cosmo

 

Someone had to say it Brian thanks!! I agree 100% with everything you have written.

 

I think the build quality has gone up dramatically here at the HAMB since the old days, thank God.

 

By what you quoted and what you posted it's clear that some have taken the point out of context. Safety and quality are mutual friends. It's in bad taste to mix current Fed restrictions in with a discussion regarding what boils down to craftsmanship. The point isn't make em like today, it's about considering the diminished returns of the "let's hurry it up and go for a ride" mindset that really has become more apparent in the cars we see that wish to belong. Do I advocate ANY of what you said? Nope. I restore for a living and some of you would shudder at what I've seen people do to their old cars. And I'm not talkin back in the day I'm talkin from one shop to another, or from a previous owner.

Frankly, If you or anyone else wants to cobble shit together and take your chances then good for you. I hope you don't get hurt, but I do hope that some may find themselves alone broke down in an area full of mosquitos and swamp having to walk several miles for help. And clearly there's some who even then wouldn't get it. Correct is always easier and safer.

 

Yes you can, but a lot of parents don't even try anymore and the goverment is so busy protecting us from ourselves there is no chance to make little mistakes as kids to keep us from making big mistakes as adults. Don't get me started.

 

I used to put saftey second.....until I was on FIRE!!! Then you start to think about NHRA (and other's) saftey rules. Even if you're not racing, they're good guidelines. Never assume a part is safe just because somebody sells it. There's a lot of crap around. Sooner or later saftey becomes a priority in your life, make it sooner, make it easier and build safe from the start!

 

Heres' an example of some perfectly done shitty work, this came from a 'professionally built' '36 chevy pickup. It didn't have any brakes and and they didn't know why.
Look real close, it has got all the right stuff, adjustable prop valve, stainless steel hard lines, residual pressure valves, thru-frame fittings...if you look real close you'll see they used double-flare connectors with a single flare (it is 45deg, plumbers' flare, not even 37deg AN flare) and had teflon tape at each joint to keep the fluid from running out while it was still in thier shop!
Well, you see what our approach is, we'll salvage some of it but i'll box the rest of the mess up and send it back to the shop that did the work.
I'm like Highlander, the shit we see is incredible. Makes it hard to keep a good attitude.