How long do 'perfect' paint jobs stay perfect if you drive the vehicle? Is it a never-ending hokey pokey with the paint shop to repair rock chips/scratches that result from normal use? How do you guys/gals with perfect paint jobs deal with that issue? Serious question.
Theres more then just rock chips,steel cars have rust,glass cars crack or bubble,then you have some owners that are the problem,,i have a customer with a 35 dodge thats painted house of kolor sunset pearl,i blended it at least 15 times to date,the guy keeps on dropping things on it,or running into things,he is dangerous with a screw driver in his hands!!,,,
i really think the problem solving aspect comes with years of experience. painters that have been doing it for a long time probably don't have the problems that some of the up and comers have, only because they know how to avoid them in the first place. they can spot pin-holes, non feathered edges, sanding scratches, and wet sanding jizz that wasn't cleaned properly, shiney spots and contamination before the sealer goes on. they know when their in the mood, and when they have the right amount of time to get the car painted with the least amount of interuptions, because distractions can sometimes be the kiss of death. a controled painting environment also cuts down on the chance of fuck-ups also, keeping bugs and dirt out of paint, not to say you won't get that one pesky fruit fly walking thru your clearcoat! shit does happen to every one who paints, lets face it, but being able to fix it without creating a shit storm takes patience and focus. i've been using the same paint system for 20 years, and i know when to, and when not to attack a problem. i think when most painters get comfortable with the paint the've been using for a while, they just know when to go in there and fix it. guys that spray once and a while, spray in garages with plastic draped on the walls, (more power to you guys) spray outside, etc. will undoubtebly run into more problems, but that's where you say, i'm going to do this if it kills me, or they say this shit ain't for me! as far as the "perfect" paint job, if the customer thinks it's "perfect", then it is. if the painter thinks it's "perfect", then it is, because if he's critical of his own work, you know he spent the time to get it as damn near perfect as his experience and abilities allowed him. i know guys that think every car they paint is perfect, no lie. their only kidding themselves, because i when hear that, and look that car over, 99% of the time, a trained eye can pick that car apart with no mercy, and i will, perfect my ass. not saying the perfect paint job is not out there, but not as many as people claim to be. have a nice day.
No secret here. 1. Just park it in your garage, never drive it, don't let the sun shine on it, just look at it. Even then you must pray that everything underneath was prepped properly so you have no shrinking, swelling, dieback etc... 2. Drive it, enjoy it, and when u can't take the stone chips pay me or highlander to fix it.
Man I'm glad I'm not the only one that has problems.....though mine are mostly my own stupidity. Like spilling that cup of "custom tint" all over the floor, or dragging the air hose across the fender....you would think after all these years I'd have it down. I think it really is a lot of luck involved.
i have painted a few cars myself. i have never had a pefect paint job but i have had some nice ones. i have also had my fare share of bad things happen. you just have to get past the bad and try to learn what happen and make myself a better painter in the end...jones
I have painted a ton of cars from high end to cheap and it always is the car that you car the least about that comes out the best! How about the famous customer that all ways says "It doest have to be a show job" RED flag! thats the guy who wants the riddler job for a 100 bucks! thats why i have one paint job anymore the best that i can do If you dont like it take it some where else.
I paint my stuff in my shop, which does double duty as my DRIVEWAY. LOL. I just LOVE watching helplessly as a leaf settles down onto my freshly painted hood. Oh well, it adds "character".
I agree on all counts. You bro, are a fuckin smart ass...I like it. Been there too. It does seem that way, the one you don't care as much about. I think that experience has taught me that to a certain degree you need to have that "don't care" thinking in your gig. That clearly does not mean to slop things out, more like you already know what it takes so suck it up and go for it. I told my friend that my truck will probably take 3-4 full days just to apply the color and clear. He thought I was crazy until I told him what I was going to do. I can truely "see it before I do it" on this one and the overall truck will be years in creation. I'm happy to see those on here that get it. That know how to be all in when it comes to a finish. The latest thinking of instant gratification has no place in professional show work. It's not for the poser or the faint of wallet. How long does perfect last? Well if it really is perfect it holds up to UV, use, is easy to touch up, has gaps and fits that don't crash and the sheetmetal doesn't move around. A good finish starts in the steel. On one car there was a weld that started to move around after 15 years but the color had concealed it well enough I let it go. Coulda been dissimilar metal, a bit of lead contamination, whatever. If that's all in 15yrs I'm not hangin my head for it. I gave my definition but what are some of your descriptions of perfect? Let's hear it.
perfect... hmmm, lets see, bodywork, gaps, when it comes to body gaps, i'm as critical as they come, laser straight bodywork, and alignment of body lines. paint, no blotches or metallic "modeling", nice smooth finish, free of orange peel and other imperfections, high gloss with a reflection that you can shave a gnats ass in. no visable sanding scratches or wrinkles from any lifting or feather edging and no overspray in jambs. cars that are painted in pieces, color match equally on every panel. candy jobs, no overlapping on body panels that get darker around the door gaps and trunk and hood gaps. wow factor, the right color on the right car, you know when sometimes a certain color on a certain car can either make it or break it. it takes alot variables to get the perfect paint, the most important is the prep work, without that, your job is doomed from the start. and i guess lastley, would be the money, because time is money, and it takes alot of time to get the perfect job.
I agree. I guess I'm not sure its a complete definition, as I personally have never achieved perfection, or have witnessed it. To me, perfection is the unobtainable goal that I strive for in every job I do. Perfection in my mind is fictitious. Now one more stupid trick that I have done probably a handful of times. I use the 3M PPS system frequently. I think it's a bit spendy, but the ability to spray upside down or sideways without the gun sputtering is worth it to me. I have on several occasions tried to fill the PPS system with paint or clear without the plastic liner in it. Just stand there and look stupid as your paint runs down your bench and onto the floor.
Hey, A perfect paint job, to me is as follows................. Panel alignment has to be flawless, balanced gaps at all body openings. Metalwork, mirror straight, no waves, high or low areas. If it's an open wheeled or semi-opened wheeled vehicle I better not see any picking hammer marks or scratches in the finish of the fenders from below. No wads of filler hanging on the inside edges of panels. No dry spray or peel in the drip rails, cowl vents or panel flanges, and it goes without saying no sags, drips, fish eye ''peakers'' or mottled metalic, pearl or flake. No ''ledges'' left from graphics sprayed on and not leveled. The choice of colour must be ''correct'' for the era of build, no ''attention whore'' graphics or ''me too'' colours just because they happen to be vouge now! This is a tough area for a kustom build as they are suppose to be a personal expression, not a cliche. No colours that look as if your wife picked them, unless she actually has her name on the title to the vehicle. This last one has gotten me called everything but ''sir'' on more than one occation- the paint job must have the correct amount of ''orange peel''. If I'm judging a muscle car with numbers matching, date coded hoses, clamps and build date stamps, I better not be looking at an overcleared and polished urethane finish! Same goes with an early kustom. Lacquer, acrylic enamel & urethane don't look alike, they're different to anyone who has ever sprayed them. Well, that's the window I look out at when it comes to paint. '' The one thing all nation share is the fear that a member of the family will want to be an artist "
have painted for over 30 years, probably 2000 different cars.... perfect is when the owner/customer/friend, appreciates what you have done. thats all it takes for me anymore. i appreciate what everyone does or attempts that involves that amount of work, i'm sure there are many best painters/jobs out there.
I have come to the conclusion that perfection is an illusion. Or at least illusive. I have had many screw ups in the few cars I have painted. Every time I think I have all the angles taken care of, a new problem kicks me in the ass. Not one paint job has ended the same way. Temperature, equipment, prepping, attitude, nothing has ever some together like it should. There are a few I've supervised that have come close, but none that I'm completely satisfied with. It really comes down to how much time you feel like spending on one. You can try your damnedest to make one look beautiful and come out like shit, or you can have a P.O.S. you could care less about and have it come out beautiful. I think luck plays the biggest factor. The closest I have ever gotten was this one where it took two tries and probably over 50 hours to complete. Even after that, I spent two weeks meticulously wet sanding and polishing the same car, only to have the owner paint his engine in the vicinity of said car and get red overspray all over it. Ah, F***K! He even tried to tell me I didn't polish it right! But when I polished it again, showing him the red stains on my new white foam pad (car was silver, engine was red) did he believe that it wasn't me. Then, I kicked back, stared at that beautiful, PERFECT paint job, and almost shed a tear. It was all downhill from there, unfortunately. On his next project, I spent a whole winter's worth of my free time wet sanding and polishing this beautiful 40 Ford Standard. Black, rust free, straight as an arrow, gorgeous! The guy is a wheeler dealer, so he flips them as soon as they're done. This car was exceptional for what it was painted with. He sells it to this doctor , who is giving it to his father on Father's Day. He delivers it, and as he is presenting the car, they are occupied in conversation, and the doctor's two year old boy climbs up the driver's door in his sneakers, so he can see inside, and the doctor doesn't even bat an eye. My client says, "well it's his now....." I should have said "well, at least I didn't get paid too much for it". I get what you are all saying, though. Been there, done that. I'm trying to do one for my self now, hopefully karma will grant me one I can feel proud of for once!
The PPS setup is badass! Talk about easy cleanup. I use about 3oz of thinner to clean my gun after spraying clear. The boss bitches about the price, but I tell him he saves cash by not going through 20 mixing cups. and 3gal of thinner a day.
Oh yeah, Iv never sprayed or seen a PERFECT paint job either. Show me a perfect paint job, Il show you a flaw in it.
I know a 1/2 dozen guys like you that will even "percieve" a flaw to make their point. So far the few descriptions we're getting on this topic are hittin it pretty close. I like the orange peel reply regarding "number-matching" restored cars. Once again, if you can hit that look you're a winner. There's a trick to that and it's material related. Certainly not what you're thinking right now as you read this. The first part of my trick would take the mental preparation to REALLY be all in as soon as you pick up the gun. Be just as all in the very next morning and be prepared to work hard and fast with 1 or 2 guys that truely know what they're doing. Science and time manage the rest and I confess, I learned this by accident. It takes a quality urethane clear, some color in the clear (caution: clear brings unwanted silver sparkles in metallics!) and 1 less coat than the usual show finish. Within 12hrs, no bake cycle, get on it with sanding and polishing. You have about 24hrs to get it where you want it. Shove it out in the sun or park it in the shop near the heat. 2 days later it'll peel up consistantly everywhere you sanded and polished, as close to OEM as you could hope for. The difference is your panels are straight and there's no dirt or runs (unless you run the under-deck corner or a door jamb purposely). When you pull that off it's perfect...a perfect representation of an OEM finish with modern durability. Logistically, you need to also paint that car just like the OEMs as in sprayed as a complete assembly (Mopar, Ford) or front clip seperate (most GM). Like I say, "all in".
Hey, That's a good point on the early cutting and polishing of the clear to produce the correct amount of ''peel'', just don't try this ''trick'' with a cheap clear! You can knock the ''cheesy'' look off a urethane by using different methods on your final cutting/polishing, too. A good many of the painters I know today, haven't learned to know when to say when! They figger, alot of clear equals a good paint job, the ''sheep'' wanna see shiney, but it ain't real depth! Once you ''get'' the mechanics of painting down, the game becomes a question of what results am I shooting at, and what skills, drawn from experience (sometimes bitter) do I use to produce the required result. There's alot of ego/excuse jive in the paintin business, when you learn to cull out all the bullshit and deliver on the promise, that's a good paint job. ''There's no better educator than experience"
nothing and no one is perfect.thats what makes all these cars unique and fun to do. you can paint for 60 years and still have a bad day. show me one factory finish thats perfect because your 60,000 dollar brand new caddy looks worse than an orange.id rather be able to improve than be perfect. If you know everything then you know nothing far as im concerned.
Sounds a bit sour there faux. Look at it this way, if you wish to replicate an OEM finish on a restoration then you pull all of your rabbitts out of the hat and find a way. Then what you get is that "perfect" representation. If you want a truely flawless perfect finish then you work your fuckin ass off, surface until your fingers bleed, step back, change lighting, concentrate on the mix ratios, pull those rabbitts out of that hat AND GO FOR IT. Will you hit it? Only if the opinion you've expressed doesn't exist in your outlook and you have a customer or the personal time to make it happen. I've seen perfect finishes and have done a couple. Not all, no fuckin way. Sometimes it's not worth it or doesn't belong. Packard Motor Company painted every car black before final paint to visually inspect panel fit and sheetmetal quality. That's in print and it's apparent in the quality of their cars from the past. They did however, leave the pick marks under the fenders after the artisan's work was done and simply painted over it. I always thought that was cool that one could tell the lengths they went to to make a world class car. If you ever have the opportunity to study some of their promotional pics the finish on some of em is so nice they powder-puffed the cars to get the right shot. You see that in movies too. The chrome looks like it has hairspray or something similar to dull it down. If you want you can get it. I refuse to accept the idea that perfect is unattainable. Oh, and for the record, if you think I'm coming off as a fuckin know-it-all, you couldn't possibly be more incorrect. This industry changes like michigan weather and a dedicated finisher knows how to adapt. Kinda the whole topic here wouldn'tcha say?
Boy I missed out on this topic.... Dad always said "Do you know what the difference is between a amateur and a professional is? A professional can hide his mistakes." That was always a funny statement to me being that Dad was an Aerospace design engineer, me I am a Bodyman.
wow theres no need for cussing.all im saying is nothings perfect.you can have a world class car and somewhere on it can (and most likely will)be a problem.no matter who you are.you can spend years metal working ,prepping , painting and flow coating,buffing getting perfect coverage ...blah blah blah and in the end if the cars great who cares?dose the owner like it ?are you happy?did you do your best? i bet you know where there is a mistake somewhere in every job.if you lie your only lying to yourself.i have also done award winning paint jobs. a few in fact ,but i know alllll the mistakes in every one and thats how i learn to get better.if you ask me i dont know anything, but every time i pull those rabbits out they sure seem to get the job done.there are thousands of painters better than i will ever be,but then again they will say the same.unless that is they know it all and always do a perfect job.once you know it all where else is there to go?
Hey, Wow, I musta huffed more thinner than I thought thru the years.................if perfection isn't the target, and it's an illusion, why bother to load the gun and step into the booth? Sheeeeeit! beat feet down to "Wally World" and snag a couple rattle cans of any of that "Poser-Boy Flat Finish", the kind guys run when they run outa excuses for miss aligned panels and piss-poor metal work, and squirt that on! ZERO RISK Involved, here! Over the last ten-fifteen years I've seen the quality of paint jobs soar thru the clouds at shows and the OEM jobs, too! Sure, ya still see the jobs that make ya scratch your head and say, " I didn't know Ray Charles was still alive and painting vehicles?" Too, ya still see the job where the painter tried to save his ass & ego by slinggin' the clear as thick as he could to create the illusion he knew what he was doin'. Some of the young guys commin up are doing some killer jobs in candys, flakes & pearls. At this rate the word "perfection'' won't have any street value. " Beware the irrational however seductive "
I have read and reread this post many times to get an idea where the best work is done and what details they are looking at. Lots of good points. Who is doing the best paint work in the US and Canada for collector cars and Hot Rods? Just curious to see what folks think. Vintageride
My career...? Started when I was 14. I had a 55 chevy. It looked ok, but I wanted another color. We had a wood shed with a dirt floor. I wet sanded it with 600 (a block? what's a block?) LOL. Also the compressor was a big tank on a single axle trailer with a 7 hp briggs and a frankenstein looking compressor head used on the farm. Jacked the car up and took the wheels off to get it up off the dirt. I had been practicing my painting and hanging around a body guy in town. He always had a cig in his mouth. I watched him painting a roof on a car with an inch and a half of ashes on that cig and never dropped an ash in the paint. Squinting one eye to keep the smoke out and laying down a real nice Lucite job. He was my hero. I helped him buff a car once. When we finished, I said, looks good huh? He stepped back, looked at me and in his drawled out gruff voice said, "By God, yesterday you couldn't even spell bodyman...and today you IS one!!!" Anyhow, I wet the dirt floor down in that shed and evidently didn't have enough water on the floor (didn't want it too muddy) and ended up with shoes a little bigger than they started out but never quit shooting. Sometimes when I am shooting a car I think of that 55 chevy and old Ronnie the bodyman, And you can see my smile through the mask I know. Sorry for rambling on, And yes, on a car with the wheels still on the floor, I still throw a brake shoe under each wheel for the hose to slide around. Keep going guys, it's sure good to know I'm not the only one who has gone through AND still is going through all the turmoil of painting. Oh, And NEVER try to paint when you are tired at the end of the day, Highlander hit it on the nose! Get it ready the night before, and come in fresh and bugless. Lippy
The Jalopy Journal
