I have discussed that before. So I imagine, instead of looking at that as being from the side view. Imagine the POV is from the top..
Please read this PDF: http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf I posted it earlier but it gives you the formulas to calculate out the amount of angle in each joint. Even for offset pinions!
so what are you guys trying to say? jk jk. So many opinions on this. I have tried loading all of the links but my comp is not laoding them. Any help here? Iam about to set-up a few of these. I heard you should just have the angles as straight as possible to each other at ride height. Would that work? Less bind on the joints right?
El Polacko stayed at a Holiday Inn at Jopin about a week ago. I stayed in a completely different room at the same Holiday Inn. If you want to argue OR LEARN about driveline angle setup, you might want to research what we have already explained. Hey Steve, you want some more popcorn?
LOL, I stayed a the Residence next to the Holiday Inn. It must be the sphere of influence around that place I hate popcorn. Got any Milk Duds?
so i had a car in my shop a couple weeks ago, the front u-joint was below the rear, the driveshaft went uphill from the engine, the front u-joint angle had to be 5 plus degrees, the rear was no more then 2 i'd say, and the owner told me he never had a vibration, just by eye it looked in phase, we talked about make both the angle the same but, if it aint broke dont fix it.
I always set mine by the diagram i posted on a street car, have done it that way since i was a kid, never had vibe problems on any car. I have also seen various cars with the angles varying slightly by a couple of degrees and these have also been fine. Its not difficult to get it right though.
What's funny about this thread is over the last few days I have been solving a vibration problem on a customers 48 Ford Coupe with a bolt in Ch***is Engineering rear leaf spring kit. The main leaf on the car was standard eye above leaf in front and reversed on the shackle end. There were 4 degree wedges between the leaf pack and the 1974 Nova rear axle. Pinion angle was 8 degrees down in front, engine was 3 degrees up in front and the drive shaft was dead level. It' rumbled with increasing speed. I pulled the leaf packs apart and installed a new bushing in the reversed eye and removed the existing one to allow me to flip the main end for end. This pulled 5 degrees of pinion angle out for a 3 degree down. We checked to see if this would work, this is exactly the situation that Andy says is optimal, it wasn't. While we did kill the majority of the vibration, it was still there. We machined a new set of wedges at 7 degrees and now have 1 degree pinion up and the vibration is gone-daddy-gone. Smooth like a brand new elevator. I literally just got back from the test drive 20 minutes ago. If intersecting angles are better than parallel angles on drivelines, why don't we see it set up that way from auto manufacturers? Can intersecting angles work? Yes, if you care to read closely I never said that it would not work, it is just for the purposes of our use it rarely works. You will have a higher degree of success with parallel set ups for the most common suspension systems we use here.
I build ch***is and suspension systems from everything from mobile art projects, to lowriders (where the pinion is above the tailshaft), to 4x4 trucks and everything in-between, and have for a little over 20 years. I did not get it from a book. The bulk of the theory I started out with came from the teachings of my grandfather. I later on went to engineering school to round it all out. The rests comes from doing it every single day. I love pedantic rants as much as anyone else, and yes, the there are several ways to do any everything. Listen to ElPolacko. The man speaks the truth, and the science, and the physics. I'd take the time-tested practical application over the book-method, every time. Just think of what we could accomplish if we actually worked together, instead of bickering.
Make sure that your number lock is on. Hold down the ALT key and type 167 on your keypad, then release the ALT key. When you release the ALT key, the symbols appear. Like this: º There are a ton of symbols available, like: ½ ¼ ¾ ² ³ ± © ®, etc.
If intersecting angles are better than parallel angles on drivelines, why don't we see it set up that way from auto manufacturers? Can intersecting angles work? Yes, if you care to read closely I never said that it would not work, it is just for the purposes of our use it rarely works. You will have a higher degree of success with parallel set ups for the most common suspension systems we use here. Intersecting angles can work, but are more touchy than trying to work with parallel. \ ____________ / Only way I know to picture, at extremes also. This pictures nose up on the engine/trans and nose down on the pinion. Nose is your headlights and forward. If the comparison between engine/trans to driveshaft, which measures front u-joint angle is within ONE DEGREE of the comparison of driveshaft to pinion angle, the driveshaft should work just fine. If the driveshaft and/or pinion have a lot of angle change with suspension movement, just fine goes out the window. This applies to intersecting angle and parellel angle driveshafts. You need to know how your suspension affects driveshaft and pinion angle during normal motion, or loaded vs unloaded. I have been involved with two projects for which we had to have 10 degree angle wedges fabbed to correct suspension induced incorrect pinion angle problems. One will require a CV joint at the forward end of the driveshaft, cheaper to make wedges than to build a shaft with TWO CV JOINTS. That can be done also. Simple rule for a two u-joint driveshaft. At ride height, the front and rear u-joint operating angles need to be within 1 degree of each other during travel and stationary. A lttle bit of fudge factor can be used, but not much. Quote "Any angle is OK as long as the yokes are not at interference", will not cut the mustard or lead to u-joint longevity. ONLY EXCEPTION, if the shaft turns less than 100 RPMs. I have fixed or replaced many broken shafts because of this problem many times in the past 20 years.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Hi there, It is with the outmost interest and open mind that I went through all the above. I made soemthing that one day I will post at length. Can someone just re***ure me that when my "thing" is on the road it won't vibrate? Here goes: Jaguar motor and ******, dead level. Drive shaft: looks like 5 degrees, Differentiel, Mazda pick-up up 3.5 degrees. Everything LOOKS nice. http://
Don't think it will work properly. If the eng/trans centerline IS dead level, so should the pinion shaft be. As it appears in the photo, you have almost no angle at the joint on the rear and several degrees at the front joint. That is unsatisfactory. However, when (if) you lower the pinion to level, you will also increase the angle of your driveshaft. That MAY put the u-joints at an operating angle that is a bit steep, but you will be better off with the centerlines parallel. Have you simulated the ride height of the ch***is and then noted the driveshaft angle? That angle should decrease (improve) with a load on the springs, bringing the ch***is downward and moving the centerlines closer together. Ray
Is it possible to raise the front of the engine to make it parallel to the pinion? That would help the situatiion. One more tip----WHERE TO MEASURE ANGLE. Don't measure on any sort of casting or across a gap ***uming all is equal. ONLY measure on a machined surface that is know to be either parallel or perpendicular to the centerline of the crank/trans output shaft or pinion shaft. Otherwise you are measuring the angle of NOTHING. The machined faces on those flanges are perfect to measure angle from.
In therory therory and practice are the same in practice they rarely are. Ive used the parallel centerline method for years i can vouche for it up to 160 MPH, after that you are on your own.
Good solid advice. I have some customers that do the same as NWRacing, then drop the pinion nose down by one degree from parallel. This is still within what I have repeated. One customer has a OT looks like a Willys drag car that has been down the 1/8 mile above 180 mph many times, with a steel driveshaft built by my guys. Another set C Blown Compe***ion Fuel Coupe record at Bonneville in 1994 at 262 mph and change, Stringfellow and Kirk car.
3 down on engine and 2 up on rear always for me. I have repaired others mistakes causing bad driveline vibes with way off funky set ups. You got to keep the U joints working and 3 degrees each way acheives that. Just think during accel that the pinion is trying to climb the ring gear. For some reason that always helps me remember.
Having never done this please excuse my ignorance. Isn't the transmission angle predetermined when leveling the intake?
I recommend that you consult Alston, Ch***is Engineering or one of the other top name ch***is and car building companies. I ALWAYS set my engine with the top of the intake (carb mounting) level. I set my pinion angle 1/2-- 1 1/2 degrees lower than the angle of the driveshaft angle ---- IF you are running a ladder bar or rear 4 bar setup. You will need to set the pinion angle lower if you are running leaf springs. I don't remember the exact number of degrees. I got this information from one of the major companies' tech department but I can't remember which one that it was.
The carb flange on the intake may, or may not be parallel to the crankshaft centerline. If it is then yes this would work to determine tailshaft angle, but many intakes are canted forward to level the carb with the engine angled down at the rear.
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