I've read a number of threads on the weld vs. bolts schools for front ends and have picked up a lot of what I think is good information. But I have a different question. About a year ago, I bought a '35 Ford frame and ***ociated pieces. The fellow I bought it from had planned it as a father/son project with no real idea of what he had, what he was getting into, or what he was going to do with it when it was done. The guy he bought it from had proceeded to knock all of the rivets out of it, clean up and paint some of the smaller parts in a thick black paint and then let it set. I got it as a base for a '37 International pickup rod I was going to build and now that fall is here and the truck will be my winter project, I need to get going on the frame. So here's my question. Since this is all in pieces (see the photo below taken when I got it home) my first thoughts have been to use drift punches to align the rails, X-members, and crossmembers for welding. I was going to box the front and rear at the same time. Now I'm wondering if I would be just as well (or better) off getting grade 8 bolts and using them in place of the original rivets and just welding in the boxing plates. I'm planning a Ch***is Engineering parallel leaf kit in the back and a CE transmission mount for the original X-member both of which are bolt ins. I'd like to know what you guys think. Bolt this back together or weld it? I know there will be views on both sides, so please tell me why you feel the way you do so I can make an informed decision. I really appreciate the way the H.A.M.B. has always come through with solid advice and I thank you all very much. -Glenn
Use the bolts to get it back together, and square. When your satisfied that it's straight and true start welding. I would box and weld around front and rear crossmembers for strengths sake, just because they took the rivets out. The bolts would probably be ok holding the inner rails(x-member)to the rails. Your going to get alot of opinions on this.
A little more information. I'm capable of welding this so technique isn't an issue, and the rails will be blasted and primed before ***embly in either case. For welding, I was going to plug the holes in the X-member pieces where the rivets had been with discs and then plug weld the rails to the X-members in the corresponding holes in the rails. I was also going to run welds along the joints where the rails and X-members meet before doing the boxing. I appreciate the "weld it" responses, but so far the engineer in me isn't seeing any evidence that welding is necessarily superior to bolting. So let me rephrase my original question: Would there be any issues with replacing the original rivets with grade 8 bolts in putting this frame back together. That is, the frame would flex too much, the bolts wouldn't be up to the task, the frame would move out of alignment, I wouldn't trust my <insert loved one/friend/dog here> to a bolted together frame. That kind of thing. I'm still leaning towards welding, but I'd like to know for certain that it's the best way to go. Many thanks! -Glenn
I agree with the idea of bolting it together first. Once you are happy with it, you can do some welding where ever you desire it. Personally I've fixed some truck frames by bolting everything together, then welded the nuts so that it wouldn't come apart. Then I welded the other areas where the parts came together. You may not win any awards for beauty doing this, but it will be tight. Or you can rosette weld the holes if you decide not to use the bolts, once things are where you want them.
When you remove rivets, you can tell how tight they fit in the hole in each adjoining part. Now with a short bolt, that bolt will have threads all the way to the head. So there is not that tight fit, and I think with the normal flexing, those threads "wearing" will really fit sloppy in the holes over time. JMO I like the ideas above about plug welding. Maybe bolt it all together, square it, then remove and weld one at a time?
In my opinion, bolts are actually stronger than weld, both must be done right. For instance bolting in a crossmember requires two bolts on each side to prevent twisting. Welding is only as good as the preparation and penetration. Welding is easier to gussett and that is the reason I would probably weld.
Early frames were riveted so they would flex and not tear themselves up on rough roads. I would bolt everything up then weld gussets and boxing plates and make the suspention control the ride.
The 'engineer in you' should have reminded you that the rivets were driven in cherry red so in an annealed state they were going to be in the mild hot-rolled steel strength range. The biggest factor going for hot driven rivets is that they fill the entire hole. You can certainly duplicate the joint with a grade 5 bolt if you want to fit the bolt to the hole. Depending on the bolt size and the manufacturer, bolts do not necessarily have threads right up to the head. Yes welding will be faster, no loss of strength or function. If you decide on bolts be sure to use lots of red lock***e. .
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